Great British Railways: ironing board seats?

[Bletchleyite]

From https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ly-non-speculative.217595/page-6#post-5143560

It says "Great British Railways will bring forward the normal replacement cycles on existing trains equipped with "ironing-board"-like seats, beginning with long- distance trains": given that almost all new trains intended to be long-distance - as opposed to commuter trains that happen to cross London - have been assigned Sophias in recent years, to me that suggests that the Sophias may be in the firing line themselves. I wonder if the intention might be to replace the Sophias on intercity services, and cascade them down to replace the dreaded Fainsa Comrails in the 700s now that commuter numbers are forecast to reduce slightly. But maybe that is just wishful thinking.

If commuter numbers are going to be down that much, a load of spare Sophias would be a decent opportunity to get rid of 3+2 seating for good.

The Sophia is a regional seat and is perfectly well suited to fitting to the sort of regional trains that have 3+2 at present. The sort of train where most people do journeys lasting well under an hour.

Maybe a quick advertisement for the fine seating provided by the Grammer company might fit well here?

 

[RobShipway]

From https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ly-non-speculative.217595/page-6#post-5143560



If commuter numbers are going to be down that much, a load of spare Sophias would be a decent opportunity to get rid of 3+2 seating for good.

The Sophia is a regional seat and is perfectly well suited to fitting to the sort of regional trains that have 3+2 at present. The sort of train where most people do journeys lasting well under an hour.

Maybe a quick advertisement for the fine seating provided by the Grammer company might fit well here?

Problem is, some of those trains may do a journey that is under an hour one day, but the next day doing a journey over an hour.

A good example would be the route local to me. On Saturdays, when Brighton & Hove Albion football club are playing a match, there is class 377 units on the line between Brighton and Seaford. That journey is under an hour, yet the same class 377 units, the next day or the following Monday might be doing services from Brighton to London Victoria.

Some of the so called Iron Board seat trains such as the class 700, class 8xx trains are doing journeys that are well over the hour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Problem is, some of those trains may do a journey that is under an hour one day, but the next day doing a journey over an hour.

I did very specifically say the passengers were typically doing journeys of under an hour. Cross-London traffic on Thameslink, while it does exist, is dwarfed by traffic to London on mostly quite short journeys.

A good example would be the route local to me. On Saturdays, when Brighton & Hove Albion football club are playing a match, there is class 377 units on the line between Brighton and Seaford. That journey is under an hour, yet the same class 377 units, the next day or the following Monday might be doing services from Brighton to London Victoria.

That's a "random unit generator" issue. Southern has plenty of units with low-density seating ideal for the Brighton Express.

 

[RobShipway]

I did very specifically say the passengers were typically doing journeys of under an hour. Cross-London traffic on Thameslink, while it does exist, is dwarfed by traffic to London on mostly quite short journeys.



That's a "random unit generator" issue. Southern has plenty of units with low-density seating ideal for the Brighton Express.

I was not talking about the Brighton Express, there is stopping services that Southern do between Brighton and London!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was not talking about the Brighton Express, there is stopping services that Southern do between Brighton and London!

Which people mostly won't use for journeys between Brighton and London, because there is a fast service! People will be using it mostly for shorter overlapping journeys typically of under an hour.

 

[RobShipway]

Which people mostly won't use for journeys between Brighton and London, because there is a fast service! People will be using it mostly for shorter overlapping journeys typically of under an hour.

Er.... there is stopping services that take longer than an hour, even before they get to London from Brighton. Are we saying to those passengers, that we don't care about you as you should be commuting on a journey below 1 hour!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Er.... there is stopping services that take longer than an hour, even before they get to London from Brighton. Are we saying to those passengers, that we don't care about you as you should be commuting on a journey below 1 hour!

I'd not get hung up on Brighton, to be honest. There are plenty of routes on Southern well under an hour - East Grinstead and Caterham, for a start.

But no, I'd not consider those who use a slower service where a faster direct service exists. People do choose to do this for various reasons, but it isn't a basis on which to choose the seating.

 

[RobShipway]

I'd not get hung up on Brighton, to be honest. There are plenty of routes on Southern well under an hour - East Grinstead and Caterham, for a start.

But no, I'd not consider those who use a slower service where a faster direct service exists. People do choose to do this for various reasons, but it isn't a basis on which to choose the seating.

That is where I have to disagree with you. The seating should be made, whether you are doing a trip under an hour or over an hour.

So if I am say commuting between Brighton to Clapham Junction, which can be over an hour I would expect the comfortable seating that you have in a class 377 and not the Iron board seat that you get in the class 700.

But as I stated above, that same class 377 unit could also be used on a more local journey. But the seating as it is with the class 377 should be just as comfortable for the local journey.

That is why I think that your comments are being inconsiderate of the passengers that would be travelling on the trains. It would suggest to me that if you took the passengers money, you would not care if they where sitting on wooden bench seats for their journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is why I think that your comments are being inconsiderate of the passengers that would be travelling on the trains. It would suggest to me that if you took the passengers money, you would not care if they where sitting on wooden bench seats for their journey.

Not at all. I'm just saying that for short journeys, thin and high-density seating is appropriate, whereas for long journeys, thicker and lower-density seating is appropriate.

I don't think 3+2 is appropriate anywhere, but I'm not suggesting that.

 

[Mikey C]

I don't find 3+2 seating that bad for journeys of a certain length, as off peak you can space out anyway and for families with young children or large groups, it's quite handy. My experience of the North Kent lines is that the Networker middle seats were used, unless only going for a couple of stops, I didn't see people choosing to stand

It's the narrow and scrunched up against the wall 2+2 Desiro City seating which I find much worse.

Comparing narrow 2+2 with 3+2, the 3rd person on the former has to uncomfortably sit next to someone, whereas on the 3+2 it's only the 4th person who has to do this!