Great Northern 313s to Southern.....

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physics34

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heard a rumour the other day, just wondering if anyone has heard this and if they have any more info.
 
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TheNewNo2

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Does Southern need more 313s? What with the new 700s, there's a load of 377s being released from Thameslink duties.
 

Bishopstone

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Some of the West Coastway services between Brighton and Portsmouth could do with more capacity.

1x313 appears adequate on all the Seaford, Lewes and Hove runs from Brighton, except when there's football at Falmer.

It wouldn't surprise me if the 313 fleet was augmented by a handful of units: especially as reliability is only going to go one way on these 40 year-old trains.
 

physics34

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it was just something i was told by an eastbourne based driver. He said it was in a "brief". I cannot find a brief with that info in it though
 

Robbies

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Is there not due to be some class 377's going to SouthEasterm, so would these be replaced by the class 313's from GN which are going to be replaced by the LO class 710 units when they arrive?
 

D365

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Is there not due to be some class 377's going to SouthEasterm, so would these be replaced by the class 313's from GN which are going to be replaced by the LO class 710 units when they arrive?

No, no and no... Well, the first is still not finalised, additional 313s to Southern is definitely not confirmed (if nothing else, for parts) and how on earth did you come to conclude that London Overground's Class 710s are being diverted to Great Northern?
 

agerj001

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My he Moorgate and great northern metro service is to be run using new class 700/2s not 710s, those are for the Watford dc, Goblin and Ex AGA routes operated by LO. If more 313s were to come to southern they could strengthen the services but would need a heavy refurb to bring them up to the same standard as southern's 313s - which are in a far better state than Great northern's.
 

jon0844

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The Moorgate line isn't going to become LO until after 2020 is it? So those new 70n's will already be in service and still GN branded for at least two years won't they?
 

hwl

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The Moorgate line isn't going to become LO until after 2020 is it? So those new 70n's will already be in service and still GN branded for at least two years won't they?

It is on the TfL wish list but nothing more.

The 377 plan in brief:

Most of the TL 377/5 go on to GN routes.

TL 377/2s and some 377/5 go to southern.

Upto 25x 377 (probably /1) go to Southeastern

377/3 and some more 4 car 377 (presumably what ever Selhurst has to even up mileages as required etc) transfer to Southern Metro services to increase the number of 10 car services.

The 455 plan had been that they would be less intensively used as they get older and less reliable so it would make sense if this also applied to the South Coast 313 for reliability reasons (Which would require a few extras from GN) and then there is separate case for a few extras to cope with growing demand.
It all makes sense but would require DfT's agreement as it is management contract so would probably need to cover itself without extra subsidy.
 

gimmea50anyday

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Why would they need more 313's when they have 442's beginning to come off job.....

...its not like they are going to TPE......

*ducks!*
 

physics34

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Can the 377/1s couple to the existing Southeastern class 375s and work in multiple or would they be a separate fleet?

there would be software issues to sort out probably affecting the doors, before they would come into service.

Once again though this is still not confirmed to be happening yet.
 

cactustwirly

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Can the 377/1s couple to the existing Southeastern class 375s and work in multiple or would they be a separate fleet?

The 377/1/3 s were originally 375s so I would assume so
 

Robbies

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No, no and no... Well, the first is still not finalised, additional 313s to Southern is definitely not confirmed (if nothing else, for parts) and how on earth did you come to conclude that London Overground's Class 710s are being diverted to Great Northern?

Oops... sorry I meant the class 700/1's replacing in part the class 313's when they come on stream.

Why would they need more 313's when they have 442's beginning to come off job.....

...its not like they are going to TPE......

*ducks!*

Problem is that the class 313's are more disability compliant than the class 442's. As much as I think that the class 442's are a good train, there is not much scope for it to continue on pass 2019.
 
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D365

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Oops... sorry I meant the class 700/1's replacing in part the class 313's when they come on stream.

Wrong again. The Class 700/1 is the 12 car Desiro City variant. If you mean the peak-hour Welwyn stoppers that will be going over to Thameslink, those will be serviced by the 8-car 700/0s.

Problem is that the class 313's are more disability compliant than the class 442's. As much as I think that the class 442's are a good train, there is not much scope for it to continue on pass 2019.

Obviously the PEP-based units do not have toilets, but did the Southern refurbishment take care of disabled access compliancy?


The 377/1/3 s were originally 375s so I would assume so

I thought it was just the 377/3s that were converted?
 

Domh245

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Wrong again. The Class 700/1 is the 12 car Desiro City variant. If you mean the peak-hour Welwyn stoppers that will be going over to Thameslink, those will be serviced by the 8-car 700/0s.

I suspect Robbies is referring to the Moorgate replacement stock, which some helpful soul has decided to include on the class 700 wikipedia page (as well as somebody who decided that they are going to be 700/2s on the desiro city wiki page!). They haven't been assigned a class number yet, as far as I know, and if they are given a 700 subclass I'd be massively surprised.
 

Robbies

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I suspect Robbies is referring to the Moorgate replacement stock, which some helpful soul has decided to include on the class 700 wikipedia page (as well as somebody who decided that they are going to be 700/2s on the desiro city wiki page!). They haven't been assigned a class number yet, as far as I know, and if they are given a 700 subclass I'd be massively surprised.

Yes, I am referring to the Moorgate Replacement stock.
 

swt_passenger

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I suspect Robbies is referring to the Moorgate replacement stock, which some helpful soul has decided to include on the class 700 wikipedia page (as well as somebody who decided that they are going to be 700/2s on the desiro city wiki page!). They haven't been assigned a class number yet, as far as I know, and if they are given a 700 subclass I'd be massively surprised.

Modern Railways' recent rolling stock table (in the April edition) lists them as 701s.

I'd agree that the wiki suggestion about 700/2 is someone's wishful thinking based on the early reports they were to be 700 variants. Whoever originally wrote '700 variants' should probably have written 'Desiro City' variants instead.
 

AndyNLondon

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Regardless of what class number their replacements get, the GN 313s are looking quite tatty these days. Given that they'll be 40+ years by the time they're replaced, would anyone really want to pay for a refurbishment to squeeze a few more years of running out of them?
 

TH172341

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It wouldn't necessarily surprise me if a few of them are done up to join the South Coast routes. I rode (admittably for the first time) a Class 313 (313052) for the first time not too long ago - actually better than expected. Neatly turned out internally and liked the comfy high back seats. Quite an unusual nostagic feel along the Moorgate line with the combination of old signage and stock!
 

Fincra5

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A fitter told me that SN 313's need to go for a C6(?) Overhaul in the not too distant future.
 

Minstral25

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It is on the TfL wish list but nothing more.

The 377 plan in brief:

Most of the TL 377/5 go on to GN routes.

TL 377/2s and some 377/5 go to southern.

Upto 25x 377 (probably /1) go to Southeastern

377/3 and some more 4 car 377 (presumably what ever Selhurst has to even up mileages as required etc) transfer to Southern Metro services to increase the number of 10 car services.

The 455 plan had been that they would be less intensively used as they get older and less reliable so it would make sense if this also applied to the South Coast 313 for reliability reasons (Which would require a few extras from GN) and then there is separate case for a few extras to cope with growing demand.
It all makes sense but would require DfT's agreement as it is management contract so would probably need to cover itself without extra subsidy.

377/7 will also be added to metro services full time as the 377/2 & /5 will take over Milton Keynes trains as 8 coaches AFAIK
 

387star

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wouldn't 319s make more sense or am I missing something

They have toilets and superior build plus newer etc and surely loads unaccounted for still
 

physics34

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wouldn't 319s make more sense or am I missing something

They have toilets and superior build plus newer etc and surely loads unaccounted for still

Would be perfect for the route........ but the bigwigs have other ideas
 

hwl

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wouldn't 319s make more sense or am I missing something

They have toilets and superior build plus newer etc and surely loads unaccounted for still

Lots of 4, 6 and 7 car platform lengths so doubling up units makes it harder to find stations to call at with 2x 319s (about 3 times as many where 8 car won't fit as 6 car).
 

TEW

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Obviously the PEP-based units do not have toilets, but did the Southern refurbishment take care of disabled access compliancy?
No, but I'm not sure they'd need much work to make the compliant. They're fairly similar to the SWT 455s inside, and they did not need a lot of work to be compliant. I know the 313s don't have compliant door sounders, do they have a Call for Aid fitted?
 

hwl

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377/7 will also be added to metro services full time as the 377/2 & /5 will take over Milton Keynes trains as 8 coaches AFAIK

377/7 used on metros during the peak and on the MKs off peak at the moment so are they planning to go 8 car all day on the MKs?
 
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