Great Northern and Thameslink May 18 service changes

[Abpj17]

The main concern is whether we will actually be able to get to the doors to alight at Potters Bar without having to stand by the door at WGC ! So not sure how many will be able to get on at Potters Bar either.

Compared to most other models, the 700s are very spacious around the doors (and in the aisles).

 

[APUK002]

O

The preview services to Horsham and Brighton from Peterborough and Cambridge begin on the 26th February as proper Thameslink services, with the rear FC declassified. All cleared to run in passenger service throughout.

oo,another update

 

[ijmad]

Apart from these previews, are we expecting any more services to call at London Bridge on their way to/from the Core next week? Or are things roughly staying as they are until May?

 

[Bald Rick]

And the first service train from the ECML to the TL core will be....

0946 Peterborough-Horsham

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X31830/2018/02/26/advanced

 

[ijmad]

And the first service train from the ECML to the TL core will be....

0946 Peterborough-Horsham

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X31830/2018/02/26/advanced

Interesting to see it stopping at New Cross Gate. Wonder if that will be happening after May.

 

[USBT]

Interesting to see it stopping at New Cross Gate. Wonder if that will be happening after May.

The existing London Bridge-Horsham service calls at New Gross Gate. So if this Peterborough-Horsham is replacing the regular service it will have to call there as per the current timetable. After May the TL service will no longer serve NXG.

 

[bramling]

And the first service train from the ECML to the TL core will be....

0946 Peterborough-Horsham

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X31830/2018/02/26/advanced

So 5 mins later into London compared to the old schedule. Wonderful for people who had made plans based on the old schedule. Not impressive at all.

 

[Failed Unit]

So 5 mins later into London compared to the old schedule. Wonderful for people who had made plans based on the old schedule. Not impressive at all.

The other service now requires a change to people using stations south of Peterborough.

Makes me think now we can’t change onto London trains at Peterborough because of the new proposed service reductions, how will passengers heading to Scotland feel about having to change at St Pancras.

 

[Downthelane]

Where precisely is that five minutes being lost?

 

[class387]

It takes nine minutes to get from Finsbury Park to St Pancras, which seems more than the time to Kings Cross. Perhaps they are running at reduced speed through the Canal Tunnels during the soft-launch trains?

 

[Failed Unit]

Journey time between Finsbury Park and St Pancras is longer than present journey between Finsbury Park and Kings cross. If you were using the train to connect with the 1130 ex Kings cross you no longer have a valid connection. (Unlikely scenario to be honest)

 

[AM9]

Sloppy programming in that it is billed as a class 365.

 

[bramling]

Journey time between Finsbury Park and St Pancras is longer than present journey between Finsbury Park and Kings cross. If you were using the train to connect with the 1130 ex Kings cross you no longer have a valid connection. (Unlikely scenario to be honest)

It just about sums up the Thameslink Programme. This week the trains prove predictably unpopular, and next week the first ever GN to Thameslink service delays people getting to London by several minutes. I hope the media picks up on this.

 

[jon0844]

They'll probably arrive early with a longer dwell time at St Pancras.

 

[JonathanH]

Surely the extended running is because there is a) a timetable clash with a Luton to Sutton train at St Pancras so it has to wait and b) the departure time from London Bridge is fixed by the existing timetable.

Once we get to May, the timetables are integrated properly and the delay doesn't happen.

There doesn't seem to be any tolerance here for the work that has to be done in the short term to make sure the changes in May can actually happen.

 

[Failed Unit]

They'll probably arrive early with a longer dwell time at St Pancras.

Maybe. But need the 1106 Sutton service to clear the platform first.

 

[bramling]

Surely the extended running is because there is a) a timetable clash with a Luton to Sutton train at St Pancras so it has to wait and b) the departure time from London Bridge is fixed by the existing timetable.

Once we get to May, the timetables are integrated properly and the delay doesn't happen.

There doesn't seem to be any tolerance here for the work that has to be done in the short term to make sure the changes in May can actually happen.

Having tolerance doesn't help people get where they need to be at the time they need to be there. The service used to be timetabled to get to London at 1103, now it's 1108. Just so that the Thameslink Programme can play trains.

38 minutes is a long time to get from Hitchin to London on a 100mph railway. In the 1990s typical services did it in about 30 -32 minutes, even with 317s.

 

[Failed Unit]

Having tolerance doesn't help people get where they need to be at the time they need to be there. The service used to be timetabled to get to London at 1103, now it's 1108. Just so that the Thameslink Programme can play trains.

38 minutes is a long time to get from Hitchin to London on a 100mph railway. In the 1990s typical services did it in about 30 -32 minutes, even with 317s.

A few winners. People wanting to get to core stations will be happy. Likewise anyone heading beyond London Bridge.

I will probably still change at Kings cross rather than Finsbury Park as I need to leave the train anyway to validate my oyster at St Pancras.

 

[Downthelane]

How will you change at KGX if the trains don't go there?

 

[Hadders]

How will you change at KGX if the trains don't go there?

The stations are next door to each other.

The minimum interchange time for Kings Cross is currently 15 minutes.

If a train goes to St Pancras instead then you need to nip across the road to Kings Cross to connect then the minimum interchange time becomes 31 minutes.

If you need to connect to a train at St Pancras (eg EMT northbound) and you used to go to Kings Cross and walk across to St Pancras then the minimum interchange time reduces from 31 to 15 minutes.

 

[AM9]

A few winners. People wanting to get to core stations will be happy. Likewise anyone heading beyond London Bridge.

I will probably still change at Kings cross rather than Finsbury Park as I need to leave the train anyway to validate my oyster at St Pancras.

As was quickly found with Thameslink, many people wanted to go to stations in central London rather than stop at the City/Euston Road. Once Farringdon is available for Crossrail, there will be a step increase in that number from both the TL and GN side.

 

[jon0844]

Like it or not, the Thameslink project was always about linking things up and some people have been waiting for new destinations (not Horsham, but certainly the core, London Bridge, Gatwick Airport etc) and will be quite happy not to have to alight at King's Cross OR St Pancras.

I won't bring up my concerns about the chances of it all running to time, but everyone still seems to be crossing their fingers. The class 9 trains on GN will always be given priority to help them keep their slots, so they could still be the services to go for as everything else will suffer to keep them going..

 

[Failed Unit]

As was quickly found with Thameslink, many people wanted to go to stations in central London rather than stop at the City/Euston Road. Once Farringdon is available for Crossrail, there will be a step increase in that number from both the TL and GN side.

Actually i was looking forward to my service going through the core in May, unfortunately it isn’t now (pushed back to 2020 if it ever happens)

I rarely conclude my journey at Kings Cross and continuing to Farringdon/ Blackfriars is my most likely journey if / when WGC ever gets connected to the core.

Until it does I will continue to change at St Pancras as it will have a more frequent service. I also won’t need to worry about oyster validation. Maybe when we are connected getting a direct ticket at a sensible price difference will be possible. But for now splitting is best value.

 

[Hadders]

Interestingly in the northbound direction the journey time from St Pancras to Stevenage has been extended by 1 minute compared to the current journey time to Kings Cross. In the southbound direction it's an additional 6 minutes.

 

[Failed Unit]

Just taken a look at the Cambridge- Brighton timings from next week. Totally new service from the north. (Assume takes over an existing train between London Bridge and Brighton).

Be interesting to see how well it is used.

 

[43074]

The extra time appears to come from a longer dwell at Finsbury and 2 and a half minutes pathing approaching St Pancras, trains running from May will not have this.

 

[Downthelane]

Actually i was looking forward to my service going through the core in May, unfortunately it isn’t now (pushed back to 2020 if it ever happens)

I rarely conclude my journey at Kings Cross and continuing to Farringdon/ Blackfriars is my most likely journey if / when WGC ever gets connected to the core.

Until it does I will continue to change at St Pancras as it will have a more frequent service. I also won’t need to worry about oyster validation. Maybe when we are connected getting a direct ticket at a sensible price difference will be possible. But for now splitting is best value.

Why won't you change at Finsbury Park if using the core this will be quicker than walking between stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So 5 mins later into London compared to the old schedule. Wonderful for people who had made plans based on the old schedule. Not impressive at all.

Are you serious? If you have only 5 minutes slack on a journey into London by any means you need to rethink.

 

[Failed Unit]

Why won't you change at Finsbury Park if using the core this will be quicker than walking between stations.

Really? The connection time from the train I had in mind is 12 minutes. I could easily walk between kings cross and St Pancras in this time with a possibility of getting an earlier train through the core. On the return you get a seat at Kings Cross but not at Finsbury Park.

The other problem is ticket validity.

My current ticket is valid to Kings Cross. I use oyster to get to Blackfriars. I need to get off again to validate the oyster. (No idea where - need to check if we have one on the platform.)

Before anyone says tap in At Finsbury Park. That is zone 2.

 

[Hadders]

Zone 1 and 2 fares are the same as Zone 1 only. In fact in the afternoon peak it’s advantageous to tap in at Finsbury rather than at St Pancras.

What’s really needed are platform validators at Finsbury and St Pancras So passengers can change from paper tickets to Oyster.

GTR will probably fail to understand the issue though...