Great Northern Class 700 diagrams?

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by JonathanPrince, 11 Oct 2017.

  1. Skimble19

    Skimble19 Established Member

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    The CD/RA indicators are used all day every day for GN services, only 12 cars and VTEC / Hull Trains get manually dispatched. That sign (RA Board) tells a driver the platform is unmanned so they will need to dispatch themselves (or in the case of a 700 not stop). Degraded dispatch also, as said by @Fred26 above, refers to dispatchers locking off parts of a train to enable them to dispatch it safely when short staffed (again not possible with a 700).
     
    Last edited: 19 Nov 2017
  2. Fred26

    Fred26 Member

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    That's what I'm talking about. They're RA boards.
     
  3. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    Another poor start with today’s 0736 from stevenage delayed by 24 minutes ‘due to a fault on the train’.
     
  4. jamieP

    jamieP Member

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    Problem with unit whilst being prepared in the sidings. Fixed in the end by doing a reboot. Better to be late than cancelled.
     
  5. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Last edited: 21 Nov 2017
  6. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Agreed, but as far as the customers planning to use it are concerned it was effectively cancelled. No-one would wait for it as other trains would get them into London quicker.
     
  7. sefton

    sefton Member

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    22 minutes to do a reboot isn't quick! Effectively 700 people ended up being 29 minutes late.

    And being so late the only people on board will have been those who didn't want to stand on the earlier, now overpacked, services.
     
  8. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    I agree but it finally arrived 40 minutes late at Kings Cross. Surprised it takes so long to reboot.
     
  9. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Someone saw how long it takes to reboot a TVM and thought 'we can beat that'.
     
  10. sefton

    sefton Member

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    And the 6.56 is broken again this morning.
     
  11. jamieP

    jamieP Member

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    I believe the taxi was late.
     
  12. sefton

    sefton Member

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    Not according to Great Northern's text alert which said it would be "delayed about 5 minutes - a fault on this train".

    Of course Great Northern would never mislead its customers...
     
  13. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

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    Given the ongoing requirement for staff dispatch at Stevenage, which can still cause problems when short-staffed, I find it all the more bizarre that they just removed dispatchers entirely from City Thameslink (and elsewhere).
     
  14. bungle965

    bungle965 Established Member

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    06:56 canned this morning due to a 'shortage of train drivers'
    Sam
     
  15. jamieP

    jamieP Member

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    Odd seeing as its just left Peterborough 2 minutes late.
     
  16. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Yep. It is the 0733 that is gone. Maybe they managed to amend a drivers diagram?
     
  17. jamieP

    jamieP Member

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    Not that I know off. Im unsure why they showed it as cancelled in the first place.
     
  18. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Can they amend drivers diagrams that quickly anyway? Just interested as it is fine saying you are here take it, but the impact on the rest of the day will not be unnoticed I guess
     
  19. sefton

    sefton Member

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    So they didn't have a driver for the 6.56, and then they found one but the driver for the 7.33 disappeared.

    Hmm...
     
  20. jamieP

    jamieP Member

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    As far as I know there was always a driver for the 0656.
     
  21. bungle965

    bungle965 Established Member

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    NRE had it down as being cancelled, wish I had taken a screenshot now!
    It's now showing it as being 'delayed by a shortage of train drivers'
     

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  22. Fred26

    Fred26 Member

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    Stevenage is very rarely short staffed. I cannot remember a time where it has affected operational performance.
    Thameslink has lost dispatch, which happened with very short notice. There's no word when the GN will lose dispatch, but it's probably just a matter of time.
     
  23. sefton

    sefton Member

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    Not according to the text alerts sent by Great Northern.

    At 6.50 they announced the 6.56 was cancelled due to shortage of train crew.

    10 minutes later they announced the 6.56 was reinstated.

    2 minutes later they announced the 7.33 was cancelled due to a shortage of train crew.

    Coincidence or not it gives the impression Great Northern couldn't run a ....
     
  24. APUK002

    APUK002 Member

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    This is true for most services,but for the 700’s they were using staff with light baton,not using the cd/ra indicators.:(Arlesey,hitchin and others are the same)but different at other stations fpk for example:
     
  25. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    It seems it was 1P49 which was cancelled.

    No doubt the usual brigade of Thameslink/GTR/Class 700 defenders will dive in and say everything is wonderful. In reality it’s another fiasco, another load of inconvenienced passengers, and another example of how the implementation of this programme is simply incompetent and not robust enough.

    On a different note, I've been having a look through the December timetable, so far I've only looked at M-F. Not many changes at all, just some very minor changes to a handful of 365 and 387 diagrams, very little that the passenger will notice. Unless I've missed anything, no changes to formation or changes from/to 365/387. The only thing people will notice is a small handful of services at KX will be made from a different incoming service. There remain plenty of 365 diagrams which Undesiros can be put onto relatively easily.
     
    Last edited: 22 Nov 2017
  26. sefton

    sefton Member

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    So there is still the question of why Great Northern told everyone the 6.56 was cancelled and then magically found a driver for it but at the same time lost the driver for the 7.33.

    It doesn't give the appearance of a company in control.
     
  27. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    There was a driver for the 0656 but he needed a 'unit refresh'. I guess the official message had to be more generic as I doubt they'd know what the heck that meant!

    The 0733 was cancelled due to a lack of train staff, but the 0746 had extra stops added to (partly) compensate. It may not the conspiracy/incompetence people think it was!

    Additional: Surely GTR can't get rid of dispatchers on the GN side until ALL trains have bodyside cameras, and even then they don't always work. I would expect staff would remain but rarely do dispatch, but have to keep up their competency for occasional dispatch (unless the alternative is to just cancel trains).
     
    Last edited: 22 Nov 2017
  28. sefton

    sefton Member

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    So what does it mean.

    Sorry but I would say not realising you don't have a driver until a service is due to leave is a good definition of incompetence.
     
  29. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Perhaps the driver needed to be accompanied by another member of staff, as s/he was still learning the new stock. They might have been delayed, meaning the train was technically without a driver as s/he could not go alone.

    If that was the case, there was no connection between the delay of this train and the second train cancelled due to no driver. Unless someone can show that the driver was nabbed from the later train.

    IF that was the case and it was deemed better to add stops to a later train to cover for the later cancelled service, it could have been the less disruptive option overall.

    Maybe someone else will explain in more detail, but 'incompetence' is what you'd expect someone on Twitter to say, not here where people are usually more willing to wait for an explanation and accept that things can happen for good reason.
     
  30. sefton

    sefton Member

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    I think an explanation why on multiple occasions since the 700s were introduced Great Northern have failed to put a driver behind the controls of a working train would be good.

    I don't consider it unreasonable to question the company's competence for these repeated failures. All the more surprising as you would expect this to be a showcase project they would pull out all the stops to get right.
     

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