Great Northern Class 700 diagrams?

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by JonathanPrince, 11 Oct 2017.

  1. class387

    class387 Established Member

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    I don't think this is a good idea - it would just get rammed full of ignorant Hitchin passengers looking for a three minute faster service. A shuttle would work though, especially if it offered a good connection onto a fast service and therefore actually reducing journey times.
     
  2. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Would that actually matter though? In the up direction those from Foxton, Shepreth and Meldreth would already be seated on the train so people joining at Hitchin wouldn't really be an issue, whilst in the down direction just turn up early for the train departing King's Cross, as the Hitchin passengers wouldn't wait specifically when there are already 2tph worth of fast trains. For local journeys north of Hitchin there wouldn't be an issue anyway.

    I'd say a bigger problem could well be Cambridge passengers boarding the first available train, but that already happens anyway.

    The main thing is there wouldn't be the current problem of people having to stand or not being able to board at the stations between Knebworth and Potters Bar. 12 cars worth of capacity between Letchworth and London has to be better than 4!

    On a related note, another potential issue with the Thameslink service is if large numbers of Cambridge passengers do take up the Thameslink service. Not good for those using the intermediate stations as it takes up space on the train -- especially if 8-car Undesiros start turning up during the day.
     
  3. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    The 4-car trains at weekends could be solved at a stroke if there was a will at GTR.

    Haven’t the 387s got SDO? Why can’t 8-car 38£s be used on services that call at the villages on Sundays?
     
  4. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    The back of the train will block level crossings at Shepreth and Foxton in the down direction, which is why these platforms are being extended. Shepreth Crossing is an AHB, whilst Foxton Crossing is exceptionally busy -- but in either case it's no different to what would happen if a train breaks down over the crossing!
     
  5. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Other solutions included. Additional services between Letchworth and London or dropping off 4 coaches on route such as Letchworth / Royston as they do in the peak normally.

    Of course the 700s will solve it, or will they as they have less seats than what the replace so maybe the net seating will be the same but at least we can physically board - which is an improvement on today.
     
  6. APUK002

    APUK002 Member

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    Hmm,not seen this happen yet.
     
  7. APUK002

    APUK002 Member

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    When are more 700’s going to be used on GN?
     
  8. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    More inconsistency on today’s 0656 ex-Peterborough as the rear 1st class compartment is showing as declassified.

    GTR really need to sort out this inconsistency.

    Also, it’s running late again. We’ve been put onto the slows between Stevenage and Welwyn.
     
  9. urpert

    urpert Member

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    When I used to commute from Cambridge ~12 years ago this was a frequent problem with 365s in cold weather. The other big issue was sets refusing to couple when it was very cold - in those days a 365 used to join another from Kings Lynn to form the 0645 from Cambridge and in the winter it frequently took numerous attempts to get them to join.
     
  10. AS43

    AS43 Member

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    12 February 2018 has been mooted as a date when driver diagrams might change, so 700s could appear more regularly after then...
     
  11. adamedwards

    adamedwards Member

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    Seems a very long time to wait especially given I assume the short platforms at Foxton and Shepreth will soon be ready. You'd think the aim would be to get the 8 car 700s into use asap to maximise running in before May timetable change.
     
  12. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Or the easy one, which has been used for years on 8 car Up services stopping at the villages: lock the rear unit out of use until Royston.
     
  13. APUK002

    APUK002 Member

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    Ok,thanks for finding out
     
  14. APUK002

    APUK002 Member

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    That’s what I and others though?
     
  15. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Anyone know when they are ready. Forget the 700 let’s get 8 cars of any unit type running at the weekend if they can. Be very nice to be able to use the train at weekends on the run up to Christmas.

    The 387s were introduced in December and February. However they needed to get the 321 and 317 off lease. I don’t think they have the same pressure to return the 365s so better use them for the comfort of passengers as long as they can.
     
    Last edited: 28 Nov 2017
  16. APUK002

    APUK002 Member

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    That’s true. But February isn’t long to wait
     
  17. adamedwards

    adamedwards Member

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    The point about Xmas shopping demand is well made above. February is too late. The logic ought to be to go 8 car from the December timetable change using 365s especially at weekends and then bringing in the 700s soon after. Customer service please!
     
  18. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I think a lot of people just don't use the trains on Sunday on GN. I favour travelling from St Albans even with the extra driving involved, or even driving to Broxbourne/Cheshunt to get to places like Stratford (Westfield) although the latter has weekend works for the third track laying, which rules that out most (all?) weekends for now.
     
  19. adamedwards

    adamedwards Member

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    I suspect there is a lot of suppressed demand because for much of the day there is only an hourly fast service. If St Albans can justify 4 fast trains an hour on a Sunday, I would think Welwyn Hatfield can too. It is the second busiest shopping day of the year now.
     
  20. Dunnyrail

    Dunnyrail Member

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    My reasons for not even thinking of using GN on a Sunday is that there are just too many Sundays where there are Bus replacements at St.Neots. Ok so I am retired Railway and travel for free so there is no revenue loss to GN. But I suspect that there will be plenty of full fare payers that have turned up to find a bus replecement completely unexpectedly. That could well be the last time that these punters try the Train. In the bad old days of BR all day bus service whilst they did happen were nothing like the frequency that it happens now. It appears that a TOC will substituts a bus at the drop of a Network Rail hat. After all if NR is paying you to not use the Trains and for a bus replacement that you charge them for is this not a win win for the TOC if they are a bus bandit?

    One also wonders if the Modern way of doing things with much machinery etc is actually more efficient after all? At least the Government appears to be saying that the Country needs to improve efficiency to match or better our European opposition. I wonder if they see this in the efficiency figures across the complete Country where Euro Safety and Workpractice initiatives have been acepted and implemented with too much enthusiasm, to be ignored by much of the rest of Europe.

    Last week I traveled on a 700 from East Croyden and the rear first class was downgraded to 2nd. At St.Panc there was no sign of any hurry to upgrade the area to First. Is it a fact that Thameslink are only second South of the River but First is provided North? Certainly GN Services to Peterborough all have First though you would hardly notice it on a busy Saturday.
    JonD
     
  21. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    I am surprised that the various operators of great northern seem to be happy to let their customers down. I know the cancellations are not as bad as last year but not sure why they don’t do the following.

    1. Saturdays run all services to Peterborough as 8 coach. Us people south of Peterborough will soon plan our journeys to take advantage of this. Yes they intermingled with Cambridge workings but surely kings cross isn’t that busy at weekends to accommodate longer turn arounds.

    2. Run an 8 Car kings cross - Letchworth service on sundays.

    They could do this until Christmas. Other operators strengthen services on the run up to Christmas. Scotrail did in the past making Edinburgh- Stirling half hourly in December. (It is now anyway)
     
  22. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    One doubts if driver availability is good enough to run extra services. No excuse for not lengthening what they can though.

    Had an enlightening conversation with station staff at KX this week. It seems passengers generally are ok with the 387s apart from one massive exception which is the seating- both availability and comfort. A big thumbs down for the 700s, not well received at all. This is in line with feedback from staff at my local station.
     
  23. sefton

    sefton Member

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    17.42 KGX to PBO was taken out of service at Stevenage tonight.

    Lots of unhappy customers.
     
  24. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    Does Cambridge get new 700 sidings ?
     
  25. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    That's because BML/MML TL services run with the rear 1st seats declassified throughout their journeys. They couldn't suddenly withdraw the declassification when there are passengers sitting in the rear 1st class, especially as some of whom may have boarded at Gatwick with their luggage.
    Once most of the TL/GN services are provided by class700s, I think it is probable that they will have to do the same as there would be difficulty enforcing it on a mix of trains when going through the core. There will be teething problems but after a few months the service will be running as planned and the whingeing will fade into the background noise. There are very few services around the south-east that don't get moans from commuters so TL will probably end up as planned after 2019.
     
  26. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    I find it a pity that we have to accept this race to the bottom - but I strongly suspect that come 2019, Welwyn Garden City - Maidstone will be quietly forgotten about and we have to put up with a degraded service without any of the benefits of going through the core.

    When you look at the top 10 stations on Great Northern with the highest footfall according to ORR, Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield and Potters Bar are in the list. But they are all recieving a signifcantly worse service than they get today? Before you say - stop moaning - I notice you are from St Albans - with 4 fast trains per hour, maybe you would also be unhappy if you only had 2 which are going to take 10 minutes longer than the current timetable. Along with the fact that stations like Welwyn North and Knebworth with 1/5 footfall are getting a better service. You can feedback comments but these cutbacks are set in stone. But some still don’t understand when you have. 1. less seats, 2. Slower Journey and 3. No commitments that your service will ever go through the core we are a touch unhappy. It is very possible that during 2018 they find 20tph is the maximum they can operate robustly. They are phasing is as they have correctly got fears the service won’t work.
     
    Last edited: 2 Dec 2017
  27. sefton

    sefton Member

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    Of course it will.

    The 700s will still be shockingly badly designed trains utterly unsuited to the service on the GN, but customers will know nothing they say will change anything.
     
  28. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    But they are in service- therefore our opinions are irrelevant.

    Not seen anyone on the 2 services on great northern praise them. Lots of criticism. But again the silent majority are happy.

    The 387s people seem to like, it is just the reduction in seats they don’t. Suspect the same will be true with the 700s. Off peak (weekends especially) they will be liked. In the peaks they will be disliked.
     
  29. sefton

    sefton Member

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    I doubt anyone who has to suffer one for more than 20 minutes will like them, peak or off peak. Which is why they are so unsuitable for use for the 40 to 60 minute journeys to Peterborough.

    If it is the fact the 700s will have more carriages than the current service, that isn't due to customers disliking the current trains, but the incompetence of Great Northern and their failure to put on services with sufficient carriages (a problem that could be solved instantly).
     
  30. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    I've said it before and I'll repeat it again, I've nothing against the 700s but the interior layout is just wrong. A 365 style interior should've been used which would have given us the best of both worlds.
     

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