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Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by JonathanPrince, 11 Oct 2017.
I’ve got an early morning trip to London tomorrow, hence the question. Cheers for adding that.
6:56 from Peterborough 20 minutes late again this morning due to "a fault on this train".
These 700s do seem to be more unreliable than the 365s.
Was on a Thameslink 700 today that I walked through (12 cars) just at the start of the evening rush hour and I purposely checked all the people sitting in the window seats to see how cramped they looked.
Many people do of course put a foot up on the ducting, but overall very few people were sitting awkwardly and even fewer people were sitting with their legs outside of the aisle seats.
Even those that are slightly over aren't really a problem as the aisles are so wide and people can of course move temporarily to let people pass if necessary. I boarded at the front and walked through to the back, so that alone shows there was sufficient space inside.
I did chuckle that after seeing quite a few spare seats throughout the train, the declassified first class area was full and had people standing. Seems everyone wants to be in there at any cost!
Because you don't have a choice if want to sit straight with your legs in front of you!
The fact so many need to do it shows what a shockingly bad design it is.
Even sat in (declassified) first class with the extra spacing for the armrest, one foot is still on the sloping base of the ducting.
It is hard to conceive how or why the design team made such fundamental errors.
The issue isn’t the ducting (even the 365s have ducting) but how close the seats are to the side of the train. Moving the seats out by an inch would make a huge difference.
When do Cambridge start using 700?
From 12th Feb 2018 all 8 car 700/0
On the up 0514,0756,1217,1317,1717,1756,1916 & 2117
On the down (ex KGX) 0604,1014,1114,1514,1605,1714,1722,1914 & 0031 FO
Will these be the next GN 700 diagrams to enter service, or will some more Peterborough runs be introduced first?
I am also concerned that the majority of the services converted (XX:14 ex-KGX) are the Ely services non stop to Cambridge - will be quite a downgrade.
There should be one more 12 car on the PBO service before then but that's all.
8 x 8 car diagrams start in Feb.
Thanks for that, that is a pity. 1722 is one so the 2nd reduction in capacity. (Was a 321 this time last year) Normally get a seat now it is a 2x 365s. Doubt that will be the case in Feb. Ho hum that is progress.
1014, 1114 and 1514 are non-stop Cambridge.
1714 and 1914 are Royston then Cambridge.
1714 already carries quite a few standing passengers. Short turnrounds will be...interesting at King's Cross!
Omlettes, breaking eggs, etc....
The ducting is far larger on the 700s. On the 365s although there is no armrest and just a gap large enough to stuff an Evening Standard in, the ducting does not interfere with your feet at all.
I happened to catch that train this evening to WGC and the absolute last thing needed is fewer seats.
It is interesting they have gone for the faster services considering they won’t operate them day to day. I guess the passengers will be celebrating when the 387s come along. Seem to have given lots of turn around. A few services such as the 1605 they will be welcomed as these are currently 4 coach services. 1722 will be an interesting diagram as if currently splits. Shame the 1714 wasn’t increased to 12 Car. As you say a significant capacity reduction for a longer time than most Thameslink journeys. (Ok east Croydon is slow now)
1714 can't be 12 as it runs through to Ely. And the inward working is ex-Welwyn Garden City (off the sidings I think), so another restriction to 8 car. And I think 12 car would be excessive for demand on the service (ideally a theoretical 10 car length train would be about right)
Must just be a relatively simple diagram to convert in stock and crew terms.
Can’t Ely take 12 cars?
However increased capacity soon gets filled. I am sure on Thameslink people moved off the 8 coach services towards the 12 cars helping out both.
Certainly if the 1653 ex KX was converted to 8 coaches I would be back on it. Likewise if the 1728 ex kings cross was upped to 8 I would use it instead of the 1722. Helps loadings in other trains.
Isn't there a limit to the total power drawn on the Ely extension?
Yes, I think this is the only issue. The WAML Outer power supply upgrade (so north of Milton) isn't scheduled to be completed until November next year, though pretty sure all of Cambridge, Cambridge North and Ely can nominally take 12 cars. I'm pretty sure it happens out of peak times, though don't quote me on that.
Oo,this is great news for me(I love the 700’s waiting for them on my (Cbg)services
Sssh. You're not allowed to like 700s here!
Other than being a masochist, the question would be "why?", especially on such a long distance service.
Power is the main issue.
12 car FLUs are restricted to Platforms 2 and 3 at Ely (and providing you're not also platform-sharing with an EMT service, as some trains do planned or unplanned). All platforms at Cambridge North can take 12 car (I've departed on a 12 car 387 from the bay), and Platforms 1, 7 & 8 at Cambridge.
Had my first GN trip on a 700 last night from 1908 x Biggleswade (1812 x the cross) to St.Neots after Curry Club in the Spoons. When I looked at the departure on Real Time Trains in the pub it was on time at Stevenage but somehow managed to loose 6 minutes between S and B. Interestingly just before it arrived 2 bods appeared out of the woodwork to wave the Train away. Presumably B requires this on a 12 car. Two other things anoyed me about this trip, whilst I was wainting the one train that is first stop St.Neots came thrashing past and there appears to be no 3G let alone 4G internet capability for Vodaphone on the Platform at Biggleswade. Presumably cos it is in a Cutting.
For many, in the future it will mean the chance of actually getting on a train rather than watching trains leave, too full to board. Repeated posts looking for faults and moaning about aspects that don't suit some won't change anything given that the trains have a 30+ year deployment in service on MML & TL routes.
No o2wifi at station?
Intrigued to see that a 700 will do a handful of the ELY-KGX services. I had previously heard a rumour that 700's would be limited to the services from Cambridge (North?) to London, whilst the Ely and King's Lynn trains would remain as they are now using 387/365's. Is that no longer the case? (Was it ever the case? )
That is quite reasonable, but there were plenty of other ways of achieving that aim that didn't require the design failures present in these trains.
They are not design failures, - more parts of the specification (from the DfT) that you and some others don't like. Either way it doesn't matter, they are here, in service and will be for over 30 years. At £1.5bn 'ish for 115 trains, nobody will change them just because of a few complaints as long as they are doing what they were specified to do. Soon, most GN passengers will be relying on them for the additional capacity that they bring to the lines.
Quite. There was absolutely no need to install the bargain basement interior into the 700s. Why couldn't a 365 style layout be used or use the same type of seats fitted to the 345s (in 2+2 configuration).
I would say that more than 'some' of the passengers using the 0656 from Peterborough on weekday mornings aren't happy with the specification.
Seat back tables are already having to be fitted following feedback. The 700s could have been fantastic trains with a little bit of thought.