Great Northern Class 700 diagrams?

[APUK002]

Any source for this? Is the rear still declassified on Thameslink services?

I can send you the message from the if you want ? “

 

[APUK002]

Any source for this? Is the rear still declassified on Thameslink services?

And yes on TL services,rear 1st is declassified still.

 

[sefton]

GTR had no real say about the 700s.

But they have had a say about which services they use them on and whether to mirror the TL declassification.

So instead of using it on one of their rammed stopper services they decide to use it on a service that usually has half a dozen stood in each carriage, but now will have people stood for 45 minutes.

I would call that poor decision making.

 

[TheDavibob]

Didn't know about a Baldock terminator. And are any TL/GN Cambridge services running to Cambridge North (aside from the Kings Lynn ones)?

Originally the Cambridge - Brighton semi-fast (well, in GN territory at any rate), replacing the current Kings Cross - Cambridge semi-fast was slated to terminate at North, but it's since been truncated to Cambridge (sadly). I imagine once everything works through that North will see two fasts an hour, one 8/12-car Kings Cross - Ely and one 8-car Kings Cross - Kings Lynn. Doubt Great Northern will give it anything more. It's services will mostly be improved by Greater Anglia stock replacement (giving the direct Norwich to Stansted), eventually.

 

[JonathanH]

There is very little splitting and joining in the current timetable compared to the past. Plenty of 365 diagrams work as pairs all day. Likewise many GN services use platforms 0 to 8. It wouldn’t have been that hard to shuffle things to produce a couple of lengthened diagrams.

If you look down this list of GN workings at Kings Cross for Monday, almost all services from Peterborough, other than those being switched, either go into 9-11, work out to the Cambridge line or split.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...6/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GN

I don't think it is apparent at all that there will be many more 700/1s in operation out of Kings Cross in the short term.

There seem to be 7 more 700/1s to be delivered, then the list posted some time ago suggests a batch of 10 700/0s comes next around the turn of the year. I guess that these 700/0s replace 8-365 operation on the GN services that you note don't split and join any more.

 

[class387]

View attachment 39169 View attachment 39169
I can send you the message from the if you want ? “

This is fine. Thanks. Interesting to have first at both ends now only to change it in half a years time.

 

[Hadders]

I wonder what the chances are of the screens in the rearmost 1st class section saying it’s declassified?

There will be many Stevenage commuters using the rearmost set of doors at Stevenage (myself included) who will inadvertently enter the 1st class area of the train and will need to walk through. On a 12-car 365 all the doors can be used by standard class passengers, on the 700s the very front and rear doors lead to the 1st class area.

 

[APUK002]

I wonder what the chances are of the screens in the rearmost 1st class section saying it’s declassified?

There will be many Stevenage commuters using the rearmost set of doors at Stevenage (myself included) who will inadvertently enter the 1st class area of the train and will need to walk through. On a 12-car 365 all the doors can be used by standard class passengers, on the 700s the very front and rear doors lead to the 1st class area.

That’s true,but driver has to put code in for that message to appear,if they been trained /briefed on them properly they won’t put code in. People will have to change habbits(not got on the front or rear set of doors)

 

[Hadders]

That’s true,but driver has to put code in for that message to appear,if they been trained /briefed on them properly they won’t put code in. People will have to change habbits(not got on the front or rear set of doors)

Fair enough about the declassification message. I’m sure the Stevenage commuters will learn to adapt.

I’m just a bit surprised that as these trains are designed to be ‘people movers’ that two sets of doors aren’t supposed to be used by standard class passengers. Another reason to have installed a 365 style layout where this doesn’t occur.

 

[bramling]

Fair enough about the declassification message. I’m sure the Stevenage commuters will learn to adapt.

I’m just a bit surprised that as these trains are designed to be ‘people movers’ that two sets of doors aren’t supposed to be used by standard class passengers. Another reason to have installed a 365 style layout where this doesn’t occur.

Absolutely, it makes a complete mockery of the argument that the trains have to be as undesirable as they are because of the need to run in the high-capacity core. An 8-car 365 has 16 doorways fully available for all to use, whereas a RLU has only 14.

Commuters aren’t going to be impressed on Monday morning.

 

[Bishopstone]

It is perfectly permissible to use all doors and walk through first class as necessary.

 

[bramling]

It is perfectly permissible to use all doors and walk through first class as necessary.

Doesn’t help loading times though, does it? Especially if people know that boarding through those doors reduces their likelihood of getting a seat. Also those using first won’t be appreciative of the disturbance.

We already have a similar mess with the 387s, worse on a 4-car, and it doesn’t help dwell times.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Messages on Twitter last night suggest that 700 125, 700 126 and 700 128 are the pool to be drawn from for Monday's services with 700 139 and 700 140 as hot spares.

 

[class387]

Messages on Twitter last night suggest that 700 125, 700 126 and 700 128 are the pool to be drawn from for Monday's services with 700 139 and 700 140 as hot spares.

Is it intentional that these (I think) are the units fitted with seat-back tables?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is it intentional that these (I think) are the units fitted with seat-back tables?

Probably - incidentally of those five only two ( 125 and either 126 or 128 ) have been used in traffic so far, so I'd suspect those two may be the first pair used rather than put a unit out that's only been test run so far?

 

[387star]

Is Peterborough further from London than Bedford ?

 

[jon0844]

This is fine. Thanks. Interesting to have first at both ends now only to change it in half a years time.

It's been made clear that bar the branding, the trains will be announced as Great Northern and the screens will show/speak Great Northern. As such, first class will be in operation wherever marked (except perhaps during disruption where an earlier cancelled service could, hopefully, prompt declassification).

Next year, with the new timetable these trains will not exist for GN and be announced as Thameslink, and the rear declassification continues.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is Peterborough further from London than Bedford ?

Yes, about 25 miles further out.

 

[Ianno87]

Absolutely, it makes a complete mockery of the argument that the trains have to be as undesirable as they are because of the need to run in the high-capacity core. An 8-car 365 has 16 doorways fully available for all to use, whereas a RLU has only 14.

Commuters aren’t going to be impressed on Monday morning.

By the same logic "half" a door on a 365 adjacent to each First Class section is unusable, which equates to two doors in total on a 365 = still 14 effectual usable doorways, on which not all can passengers disperse in both directions.

The 14 doorways in 700s are much wider, open like lightning, and passengers can spread both ways with ease.

Go on, I dare you to actually time the 700 dwell time at Stevenage for the first few days next week, compared to a 365 obviously...

 

[bramling]

By the same logic "half" a door on a 365 adjacent to each First Class section is unusable, which equates to two doors in total on a 365 = still 14 effectual usable doorways, on which not all can passengers disperse in both directions.

The 14 doorways in 700s are much wider, open like lightning, and passengers can spread both ways with ease.

Go on, I dare you to actually time the 700 dwell time at Stevenage for the first few days next week, compared to a 365 obviously...

I don't quite follow the logic you're using. On a 700, the two doorways at each end of the train enter solely into first class. So any standard-class ticket holder entering through this door will not have any immediate access to standard seating. On a 365, although you can only turn in one direction, there's still immediate access to seating.

The point is not about whether one can spread both ways or board quickly, but whether commuters will soon learn that if they board via the 'first class' doorways they stand a much reduced chance of reaching a seat, so before long regulars will wise up to this. Now we've gone from a 12-car train to effectively an 11-car one -- or, more problematically, from an 8-car train to a 7-car one in the case of the RLUs.

 

[Failed Unit]

Depends. I always go for the 1st class door when boarding at WGC (on 387 operated services) You walk through the coach and nick the last seat while people are disembarking through the standard class doors. A few others do as well. Others may for more standing room. The RPIs wouldn’t penalty fare people standing in the 1st class doors. Just people sitting. May apply to 700s as well.

 

[jon0844]

Absolutely, it makes a complete mockery of the argument that the trains have to be as undesirable as they are because of the need to run in the high-capacity core. An 8-car 365 has 16 doorways fully available for all to use, whereas a RLU has only 14.

Commuters aren’t going to be impressed on Monday morning.

Commuters will board through first class and s

Depends. I always go for the 1st class door when boarding at WGC (on 387 operated services) You walk through the coach and nick the last seat while people are disembarking through the standard class doors. A few others do as well. Others may for more standing room. The RPIs wouldn’t penalty fare people standing in the 1st class doors. Just people sitting. May apply to 700s as well.

If you were holding the doors open to stand partly in first, I'm sure some Passenger Hosts would look unfavourably upon it. On a 700, with manual doors, I am sure it wouldn't go down well. Or did you mean the vestibule? That's first class too and it was only the 321s that the vestibule was separated by doors to each part of first class - and even that was debated with some RPIs believing it to be first class and others not.

No harm sneaking through via first class on a 387 though as you could easily say you didn't notice at first - but staying there? Not wise since it has been made far clearer than ever that it's first class.

Unless I misread?

 

[APUK002]

By the same logic "half" a door on a 365 adjacent to each First Class section is unusable, which equates to two doors in total on a 365 = still 14 effectual usable doorways, on which not all can passengers disperse in both directions.

The 14 doorways in 700s are much wider, open like lightning, and passengers can spread both ways with ease.

Go on, I dare you to actually time the 700 dwell time at Stevenage for the first few days next week, compared to a 365 obviously...

Ha ,could be a interesting comparison

 

[APUK002]

It's been made clear that bar the branding, the trains will be announced as Great Northern and the screens will show/speak Great Northern. As such, first class will be in operation wherever marked (except perhaps during disruption where an earlier cancelled service could, hopefully, prompt declassification).

Next year, with the new timetable these trains will not exist for GN and be announced as Thameslink, and the rear declassification continues.

Yes,something like that

 

[APUK002]

It is perfectly permissible to use all doors and walk through first class as necessary.

Quite

 

[jon0844]

Yes,something like that

Hopefully exactly like that. Once trains start going through the core, they'll be Thameslink services and should be marked as such in the timetables, in apps, on departure boards etc.

Then any 'rules' for Thameslink will naturally apply as they're not Great Northern.

As an aside, I wonder how many passengers will actually think they're independent operators?

 

[Failed Unit]

Commuters will board through first class and s


If you were holding the doors open to stand partly in first, I'm sure some Passenger Hosts would look unfavourably upon it. On a 700, with manual doors, I am sure it wouldn't go down well. Or did you mean the vestibule? That's first class too and it was only the 321s that the vestibule was separated by doors to each part of first class - and even that was debated with some RPIs believing it to be first class and others not.

No harm sneaking through via first class on a 387 though as you could easily say you didn't notice at first - but staying there? Not wise since it has been made far clearer than ever that it's first class.

Unless I misread?

No holding of doors. Just 2 things that happen.

1. Enter through “first class door” walk directly into standard and get seat while other passengers attempting to board are waiting for passengers to get off and have just vacated said seats.

2. Get on board and stand in vestival. RPIs don’t like it but when you ask “where else I am supposed to stand” the look up and down the train see it is rammed and leave you in peace. I guess it was an issue in the 321s but then they had nearly 140 extra seats. People stand in the front first on Thameslink as well. Not sure how it is view there

 

[Hadders]

1. Enter through “first class door” walk directly into standard and get seat....

I'll guarantee that with 51 fewer seats compared to the train that ran the same service on Friday there won't be any seats for passengers boarding the 0736 at Stevenage tomorrow.

 

[Failed Unit]

I hope some of them don’t stay and wait for the train that forms the 0755 WGC - London service. It is bad enough as it is....

 

[APUK002]

Hopefully exactly like that. Once trains start going through the core, they'll be Thameslink services and should be marked as such in the timetables, in apps, on departure boards etc.

Then any 'rules' for Thameslink will naturally apply as they're not Great Northern.

As an aside, I wonder how many passengers will actually think they're independent operators?

Ok yes