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Great Northern Class 700 diagrams?

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Bishopstone

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I'll guarantee that with 51 fewer seats compared to the train that ran the same service on Friday there won't be any seats for passengers boarding the 0736 at Stevenage tomorrow.

Though I note the timetabled journey time on that train is 24 minutes - a shorter duration than East Croydon - City Thameslink, where more or less everyone has to stand.

Comparable, also, to St Albans - Farringdon where other folk here state that standing is the norm on fast and semi-fast services.

There's standing from Haywards Heath and Three Bridges (about an hour to zone 1) on peak Thameslink trains.

And finally, many stand for half an hour or so on the Tube.

I sympathise, but it sounds as though Stevenage commuters have been getting an abnormally good deal: non-stop fast trains, and seats. Unfortunately, good things often come to an end.
 
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Hadders

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Though I note the timetabled journey time on that train is 24 minutes - a shorter duration than East Croydon - City Thameslink, where more or less everyone has to stand.

Comparable, also, to St Albans - Farringdon where other folk here state that standing is the norm on fast and semi-fast services.

There's standing from Haywards Heath and Three Bridges (about an hour to zone 1) on peak Thameslink trains.

And finally, many stand for half an hour or so on the Tube.

I sympathise, but it sounds as though Stevenage commuters have been getting an abnormally good deal: non-stop fast trains, and seats. Unfortunately, good things often come to an end.

There's never a chance of a seat from Stevenage but more passengers will be standing from further down the line and those lucky enough to get a seat will have a more uncomfortable journey with the new trains. None of this needed to have happened.
 

jon0844

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I hope some of them don’t stay and wait for the train that forms the 0755 WGC - London service. It is bad enough as it is....

I expect that people will board a 700 because it will have a lot more standing room. People may not appreciate having to stand, but they're more welcoming when not looking crush loaded - and I doubt many will let it go.

Remember, people usually won't wait for a slightly slower service that might be near empty over a faster one - so I expect in that regard the 700s will be quite popular.
 

bramling

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I expect that people will board a 700 because it will have a lot more standing room. People may not appreciate having to stand, but they're more welcoming when not looking crush loaded - and I doubt many will let it go.

Remember, people usually won't wait for a slightly slower service that might be near empty over a faster one - so I expect in that regard the 700s will be quite popular.

I wouldn’t bank on the idea people won’t get a slower service. Plenty of people from places like Letchworth, Hitchin and Stevenage get the stopping services (i.e. those calling at Knebworth, Welwyn North, Welwyn GC, etc) for the journey to London. Unless there were loads of closet 317 fans from past days, one can only presume people do this in order to guarantee getting a seat.
 

jon0844

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Some do, but many will cram on the first train that arrives (ditto for the Tube when there's been a gap in service and it makes more sense to let the first one, even two, go) - which in some cases IS sensible because the next train might be empty, but it could also break down or something.

At WGC, many people will get on a service from Peterborough or Cambridge that's fairly well loaded than get the service that originates from WGC as is therefore empty, but calls at a few more stops.

I always waited for these WGC starting trains, if only because first class was/is declassified! That also begs the question of what happens with first class when the WGC to Maidstone East trains run - but it's a bit too early for that discussion I guess.
 

philjo

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I wouldn’t bank on the idea people won’t get a slower service. Plenty of people from places like Letchworth, Hitchin and Stevenage get the stopping services (i.e. those calling at Knebworth, Welwyn North, Welwyn GC, etc) for the journey to London. Unless there were loads of closet 317 fans from past days, one can only presume people do this in order to guarantee getting a seat.

I know several people who get the stopper from Letchworth because they want to change at Finsbury Park. After the 7:27 fast train from Letchworth the next fast service that calls at Finsbury park is at 8:48 - so they have to use the stoppers or get the 7:46/7:57 fasts and go via Kings Cross.
plus quite a few of us regulars who need to get to Welwyn, Hatfield or Potters Bar.
 

Fred26

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I hope some of them don’t stay and wait for the train that forms the 0755 WGC - London service. It is bad enough as it is....

No, that shouldn't happen - SVG has a 0736 KGX only, and a 0738 FPK, KGX. If they let the first go, there's always the other.
 

philjo

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No, that shouldn't happen - SVG has a 0736 KGX only, and a 0738 FPK, KGX. If they let the first go, there's always the other.
Those 2 services are usually in Stevenage simultaneously anyway. When I am on the 07:38 (service from Royston) at platform 1, the 07:36 (fast service from Peterborough) is usually still boarding on platform 2.
 

sefton

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I expect that people will board a 700 because it will have a lot more standing room. People may not appreciate having to stand, but they're more welcoming when not looking crush loaded - and I doubt many will let it go.

Remember, people usually won't wait for a slightly slower service that might be near empty over a faster one - so I expect in that regard the 700s will be quite popular.

The 6.56 from Peterborough is never "crush loaded" (excluding disruption). It had with the 365 customers seated from St Neots for the 45 minutes and although most standing from Stevenage, only a few people in each vestibule.

Which is why it is stupid and unnecessary changing it to a 700 so 50 customers from St Neots will now need to stand, but customers from Stevenage get no benefit.
 

bramling

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The 6.56 from Peterborough is never "crush loaded" (excluding disruption). It had with the 365 customers seated from St Neots for the 45 minutes and although most standing from Stevenage, only a few people in each vestibule.

Which is why it is stupid and unnecessary changing it to a 700 so 50 customers from St Neots will now need to stand, but customers from Stevenage get no benefit.

The only saving grace for these particular passengers is that, after a while, they will probably get their 365s back. Other GN users may well not be so fortunate.

I don’t even really buy the notion that the undesiros have so much extra standing room. Yes the standing experience is rather better than a 317 or 321, but the extra space over a 365 is relatively minimal. Unless we’re counting the walk-through space between the vehicles as an improvement in standing availability, in which case things really have sunk low.
 

bramling

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Some do, but many will cram on the first train that arrives (ditto for the Tube when there's been a gap in service and it makes more sense to let the first one, even two, go) - which in some cases IS sensible because the next train might be empty, but it could also break down or something.

At WGC, many people will get on a service from Peterborough or Cambridge that's fairly well loaded than get the service that originates from WGC as is therefore empty, but calls at a few more stops.

I always waited for these WGC starting trains, if only because first class was/is declassified! That also begs the question of what happens with first class when the WGC to Maidstone East trains run - but it's a bit too early for that discussion I guess.

I’m told (from someone who uses said service daily) there are a fair few people who used to take the 0701 from Hitchin to London who now take the 0706. Guess what happened to cause this ... the fast service had gone over to 387s so presumably people at Hitchin then struggled to get seats.
 

Hadders

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The 6.56 from Peterborough is never "crush loaded" (excluding disruption). It had with the 365 customers seated from St Neots for the 45 minutes and although most standing from Stevenage, only a few people in each vestibule.

Which is why it is stupid and unnecessary changing it to a 700 so 50 customers from St Neots will now need to stand, but customers from Stevenage get no benefit.

I agree with this. Most days there a few seats available in the rearmost carriage upon arrival at Stevenage. It normally ends up with a few people standing in the vestibules but it's certainly not wedged. It'll be a crush in the 11th carriage tomorrow as the passengers who stand in the correct position for the last carriage will have to go into the 11th due to the oversized 1st class carriage.

The 0738 is full on arriving at Stevenage and wedged when it leaves - this would be a better train to convert to 1 700 (or the 0742 semi-fast).
 

philjo

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No thanks!
The 07:38 starts at Royston. the rear 3 coaches are almost empty on arrival at Letchworth. (the front 2 coaches are always full). I always get a seat in the rear coaches. any seats remaining fill up at Hitchin & some standing. 8 coach 365.

The previous fast train from Letchworth, the 0709 (non-stop to Kings Cross) used to have empty seats available in the middle unit when it was 3x 365. now it is 3 x 387 you are lucky to get on that train normally so I think quite a few now wait for the 07:27 2x365 service instead so there is less room available for Hitchin passengers (or get the 0657) - there was even more room when it used to be 2x321 last year.
 

APUK002

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I agree with this. Most days there a few seats available in the rearmost carriage upon arrival at Stevenage. It normally ends up with a few people standing in the vestibules but it's certainly not wedged. It'll be a crush in the 11th carriage tomorrow as the passengers who stand in the correct position for the last carriage will have to go into the 11th due to the oversized 1st class carriage.

The 0738 is full on arriving at Stevenage and wedged when it leaves - this would be a better train to convert to 1 700 (or the 0742 semi-fast).
Hmm ,but rember GTR don’t think like that .
 

APUK002

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Anyone going to try the 700’s tomoz,can you share feedback(pics,videos), I’m hoping to try them on Thursday (want an idea of what to expect!)
Thanks
 

Hadders

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I will be on the 0736 from Stevenage (and probably the 1742 return as they're my trains of choice when I work in London)
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Anyone going to try the 700’s tomoz,can you share feedback(pics,videos), I’m hoping to try them on Thursday (want an idea of what to expect!)
Thanks

You do realise they’ve been in service for about a year and a half don’t you. What you can expect on a GN 700 is exactly the same as if it was a TL 700. If you want to see what they are like there are hundreds of photos and videos of them internally and externally on YouTube, Wikipedia, Flickr etc.
 

sefton

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Well as predicted, customers who would have had a seat now standing for the 45 minute journey from St Neots.

Those customers sat crammed against the walls and pressed against the neighbouring passenger.

And the aisles designed for standing are completely empty.

A completely stupid service to use this type of train.
 

Hadders

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Expected 5 minutes late at Stevenage.

Many will switch to the 0738 this morning which is pulling into the station as I type this.
 

Hadders

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I’ve never seen so many standing on the 0736. 1st class at the rear is declassified.
 

Ianno87

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Well as predicted, customers who would have had a seat now standing for the 45 minute journey from St Neots.

Those customers sat crammed against the walls and pressed against the neighbouring passenger.

And the aisles designed for standing are completely empty.

A completely stupid service to use this type of train.

Just like their TL introduction, I suspect it'll take passengers a couple weeks to 'learn' how to spread down the train properly.
 

Ianno87

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Well as predicted, customers who would have had a seat now standing for the 45 minute journey from St Neots.

Those customers sat crammed against the walls and pressed against the neighbouring passenger.

And the aisles designed for standing are completely empty.

A completely stupid service to use this type of train.

I can trade you my cosy short formed (4-vice-12) 387 instead if you like?
 

sefton

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I’ve never seen so many standing on the 0736. 1st class at the rear is declassified.

I didn't hear any announcements and there was nothing mentioned at St Neots.

Just like their TL introduction, I suspect it'll take passengers a couple weeks to 'learn' how to spread down the train properly.

Customers at St Neots learned many years ago to spread down the platform to get a seat. That failed this morning with people in all carriages having to stand instead of getting a seat.
 

Hadders

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This isn’t a case of passengers needing to learn to spread out. I’m right at the back of the train and never seen so many standing.

The screens in the rear 1st class compartment said it was declassified. I took a photo but don’t appear to be able to upload it.
 

Hadders

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I couldn’t resist having a word with a couple of Great Northern managers who were at the buffers when we arrived.

They said the train is unlikely to be on this service indefinitely - they’ve put it on this diagram as it’s a simple ‘out and back’ from the depot, no SDO etc.

They seemed surprised when I showed them a photo showing the over crowding in the rear carriage.

They said 1st wasn’t declassified so I showed them my photo - apparently the driver has to input a code to declassify 1st.

I suggested they make announcements at intermediate stations saying that the first and last set of doors were for 1st class customers only to assist boarding.

They told me that everything would be okay when the new timetable comes in as there would be more services and longer trains. I had to point out that while this is true at Off peak times it’s not the case during the peak - the only increase in capacity can come from a 12-car service replacing an 8.
 

sefton

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They told me that everything would be okay when the new timetable comes in as there would be more services and longer trains. I had to point out that while this is true at Off peak times it’s not the case during the peak - the only increase in capacity can come from a 12-car service replacing an 8.

Yes they keep repeating those lies on Twitter and run away when challenged that the peak fast service from Peterborough will reduce the number of trains under the new timetable.
 
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