Great Northern Class 700 diagrams?

[notverydeep]

Passengers suffering crowding at Stevenage on the 07:36 departure could do worse than travelling later. Being a sad puppy, I alighted from 2T93 (07:20 Cambridge North to King's Cross) at Finsbury Park to join 1P49 0733 Peterborough (08:27 at Stevenage) to London Kings Cross 5 minutes later. I did this to get my first GN ride on a 700, though as I use Thameslink to Blackfriars everyday, I won't be going out of my way again to ride on one! I was fairly surprised to see that 700125 was quite lightly loaded (for a 12 car) and there had clearly been free seats prior to Finsbury Park, even in the middle of the train. Stevenage to Finsbury Park would be the heaviest loaded section of this train's journey. There were leaflets on the seats extolling the good things we can expect, although strangely enough it didn't mention the planned reduction in seated capacity from Welwyn Garden City (see the GN 387s thread and others passim)...

 

[APUK002]

I’ve never seen so many standing on the 0736. 1st class at the rear is declassified.

Oh, that’s odd(but good from passengers view)

 

[wls1]

I’ve never seen so many standing on the 0736. 1st class at the rear is declassified.

The usual case of "taking seats out makes trains less overcrowded" but more people standing is more overcrowding! Im so glad that GA are listening to customers and fitting as many seats as possible on their aventras, around 100 less seats in a 5 car GA aventra then a 12 car 700!

We have had the same situation on c2c for 2 years now, metros do nothing to help crowding, just make it worse.

 

[bramling]

Passengers suffering crowding at Stevenage on the 07:36 departure could do worse than travelling later. Being a sad puppy, I alighted from 2T93 (07:20 Cambridge North to King's Cross) at Finsbury Park to join 1P49 0733 Peterborough (08:27 at Stevenage) to London Kings Cross 5 minutes later. I did this to get my first GN ride on a 700, though as I use Thameslink to Blackfriars everyday, I won't be going out of my way again to ride on one! I was fairly surprised to see that 700125 was quite lightly loaded (for a 12 car) and there had clearly been free seats prior to Finsbury Park, even in the middle of the train. Stevenage to Finsbury Park would be the heaviest loaded section of this train's journey. There were leaflets on the seats extolling the good things we can expect, although strangely enough it didn't mention the planned reduction in seated capacity from Welwyn Garden City (see the GN 387s thread and others passim)...

1P49 is a peak shoulder service, and was never massively crowded. When it was 321s it was quite possible to get four seats to one’s self at the back of the train.

I love the way they think that having “live” Tube service information is such a good thing. Don’t they realise technology has overtaken this as most people have smart phones now? Can’t they think of any better good features on the new trains? Clearly not more comfortable seating.

Sounds like the undesiros were not well received this morning, surprise surprise.

 

[Failed Unit]

What information that would be really useful on the approach to Finsbury Park is how the city branch is running. I tend to try and check before alighting but have occasionally got caught out. In some respects more important than tube information as a lot of passengers transfer there.

Yes we have smart phones, but the tunnels can be a pain

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this thread is regarding Class 700 diagrams on the Great Northern route.

Feel free to use an alternative thread (create one if there isn't one already) to discuss anything else; if anyone has already gone off-topic, you can quote them in the new thread.

 

[jon0844]

They seemed surprised when I showed them a photo showing the over crowding in the rear carriage.

They said 1st wasn’t declassified so I showed them my photo - apparently the driver has to input a code to declassify 1st.

I suggested they make announcements at intermediate stations saying that the first and last set of doors were for 1st class customers only to assist boarding.

They told me that everything would be okay when the new timetable comes in as there would be more services and longer trains. I had to point out that while this is true at Off peak times it’s not the case during the peak - the only increase in capacity can come from a 12-car service replacing an 8.

I am not surprised the rear carriage was packed. Going by Twitter conversations, a lot of people were saying first class was declassified at the back in advance (and GN saying no) so I expect a lot of commuters who are quite clued up, decided to make for first class.

The same happens on TL to a degree. Nicer seats, power and a table - meaning it's likely the first to fill up.

GTR needs to make sure everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet with regards to first class. Officially it IS in operation at the back, but if drivers are allowing trains to show the declassified screen then they aren't going to be able to enforce it.

 

[jon0844]

What information that would be really useful on the approach to Finsbury Park is how the city branch is running. I tend to try and check before alighting but have occasionally got caught out. In some respects more important than tube information as a lot of passengers transfer there.

Yes we have smart phones, but the tunnels can be a pain

There's a lot these screens can do, but aren't. TfL status isn't the be all and end all. Showing information about other lines, delays or even details of forthcoming strikes (the 387s are showing that today) is all possible.

Even things like reminding passengers of upcoming engineering work that day (say bus replacement after 2345 or whatever) would be useful to let people know about their return journey. As well as future works.

 

[bramling]

I am not surprised the rear carriage was packed. Going by Twitter conversations, a lot of people were saying first class was declassified at the back in advance (and GN saying no) so I expect a lot of commuters who are quite clued up, decided to make for first class.

The same happens on TL to a degree. Nicer seats, power and a table - meaning it's likely the first to fill up.

GTR needs to make sure everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet with regards to first class. Officially it IS in operation at the back, but if drivers are allowing trains to show the declassified screen then they aren't going to be able to enforce it.

Is it possible that the drivers have been trained to setup the system as per Thameslink, so it was done like that this morning not knowing any different?

 

[jon0844]

Is it possible that the drivers have been trained to setup the system as per Thameslink, so it was done like that this morning not knowing any different?

I would have expected it to be part of the code they enter for a service, so done automatically. It was mentioned they need to manually enter a code to show the text, but I can't believe drivers are doing this on every TL service.

It would seem more likely to be an error, where the codes created for these new services have inadvertently left the 'flag' for declassification on - or something like that. In which case you'd expect the message to be shown on all four services today, and on an ongoing basis.

I am merely guessing, but GN drivers have little to no reason to set it when no request has been made.

 

[sefton]

Quite amusing on Twitter today with GNR boasting of their new trains and all the responses (bar one from a trainspotter) being they are rubbish.

Someone in GNR's communication department should be asking themselves whether they would have been better saying nothing, or mentioning the trains were not their choice but had been imposed on them.

 

[bramling]

Quite amusing on Twitter today with GNR boasting of their new trains and all the responses (bar one from a trainspotter) being they are rubbish.

Someone in GNR's communication department should be asking themselves whether they would have been better saying nothing, or mentioning the trains were not their choice but had been imposed on them.

Reality is they simply offer nothing to the regular passenger. For those who get seats the seating is cramped and uncomfortable. For those standing the experience is no better than a 365, other than that standing is more likely.

One suspects that some kind of declassification may *have* to happen on the services concerned. This is what happens when you replace a 240m train with a 240m train which has a big reduction in seating! It was bad enough with the 387s, but at least they did offer some benefits like increased legroom.

It's all the more frustrating knowing that the displaced 365s are simply sitting spare, or perhaps soon to go into store at Ely.

 

[Hadders]

Come to think about it I don’t think the screens were showing any Underground information let alone how the City Barnch was running.

I might not be able to get the 1742 tonight due to a late running meeting. Every cloud...

 

[Hadders]

I arrived in time for the 1742 but no services due to disruption.

I wonder if it’ll run tonight - they could put the ‘superior’ capacity to test if they do.

 

[JonathanH]

Stock for the 1742 (5P66) showing on the maps as having reversed in the headshunt south of Hornsey depot, over the flyover and empty to Peterborough.

Passing Alexandra Palace at 1824. Kings Cross platforms too congested to send empty trains in.

 

[bramling]

I arrived in time for the 1742 but no services due to disruption.

I wonder if it’ll run tonight - they could put the ‘superior’ capacity to test if they do.

It looks like the empties for both services never made King's Cross. 5P66 is currently on the Harringay flyover, looks like it may be going either empty to Peterborough, or perhaps entering service somewhere along the way - Alexandra Palace or Stevenage perhaps?

This presumably means a further 12-car undesiro will need to find its way to Peterborough at some point this evening, unless there's already a surplus there?

 

[JonathanH]

Looks like 1742 is running but with stock that would usually do 1752 service to Royston (off the 1738 arrival from Kings Lynn).

No sign of a 5P68 for the 1812.

 

[JonathanH]

5P68 just appeared at Hornsey - 1836 - guess it will also go empty to Peterborough

 

[bramling]

5P68 just appeared at Hornsey - 1836 - guess it will also go empty to Peterborough

Yep, it's now in the reversing siding at Harringay. Presumably if 1P68 does get made up it will be 365s or 387s.

Great start for GN's undesiros!

 

[Hadders]

I’m on the 1833 VTEC service. There was an earlier departure but it was a stopper so decided to wait for the first fast.

RTT is not giving much quality info as what it says isn’t be replicated on the ground. For example a 12-car 365 left platform 3 around 1830 but I couldn’t see this on RTT. I’ve no idea where it was heading to as I was on the 1833 waiting for it to leave from platform 2 at the time.

 

[Kite159]

Not the best start for the 700s on the ECML, but couldn't be helped due to the incident. On the bright side they didn't break down on the 2-track section at Welwyn North

BTW do you know how childish you sound when you call them "undesiros"?

 

[JonathanH]

700125 just passed through St Neots slow line on 5P66 Hornsey Depot to Peterborough Spital Sidings.

 

[bramling]

BTW do you know how childish you sound when you call them "undesiros"?

About as childish as the person who came up with the name Desiro. They're certainly don't provide a desirable travel experience.

5P68 is now indeed following in 5P66's footsteps and running ECS to Peterborough. In the unlikely event that 1P68 runs it will be 365s or 387s.

 

[jon0844]

Yep, it's now in the reversing siding at Harringay. Presumably if 1P68 does get made up it will be 365s or 387s.

Great start for GN's undesiros!

It's unfortunate as given the disruption due to the earlier fatality, these could really have proved themselves. Some of the trains I saw this evening were so crush loaded people literally fell out and then there was a scrum as those not alighting had to squeeze back on after letting others off. It was quite amazing that despite people getting off, the train departed looking busier than when it arrived - presumably because people always wanted to stay near the doors.

This is where 700s will earn their keep, and in future disruption I think may turn opinions around. Some people are going to be 1-2 hours late home tonight because they couldn't get on one of the trains running out of King's Cross.

 

[bramling]

It's unfortunate as given the disruption due to the earlier fatality, these could really have proved themselves. Some of the trains I saw this evening were so crush loaded people literally fell out and then there was a scrum as those not alighting had to squeeze back on after letting others off. It was quite amazing that despite people getting off, the train departed looking busier than when it arrived - presumably because people always wanted to stay near the doors.

This is where 700s will earn their keep, and in future disruption I think may turn opinions around. Some people are going to be 1-2 hours late home tonight because they couldn't get on one of the trains running out of King's Cross.

This is all well and good, but I think most people would probably tolerate 1 or 2 hours unable to board a train a couple of times per year if it meant they got a seat on their daily commute.

Of course, these future disruptions will likely be more common with trains being affected by events south of the river.

 

[class387]

About as childish as the person who came up with the name Desiro. They're certainly don't provide a desirable travel experience.

5P68 is now indeed following in 5P66's footsteps and running ECS to Peterborough. In the unlikely event that 1P68 runs it will be 365s or 387s.

To be fair the original Desiros (350, 444, 450 etc.) did provide quite a nice travel experience.

 

[jon0844]

This is all well and good, but I think most people would probably tolerate 1 or 2 hours unable to board a train a couple of times per year if it meant they got a seat on their daily commute.

Of course, these future disruptions will likely be more common with trains being affected by events south of the river.

I agree with both points, but we've had a number of days with quite serious disruption. I've only seen crush loaded 365s today, so can't imagine what the 387s would be like.

 

[sefton]

BTW do you know how childish you sound when you call them "undesiros"?

It is a more polite name than I would use.

 

[bramling]

I agree with both points, but we've had a number of days with quite serious disruption. I've only seen crush loaded 365s today, so can't imagine what the 387s would be like.

Agree the 387s are useless with anything above minimal standing loads. I think we probably both agree that the 365 provides an ideal compromise - they cope pretty well with crush loads when it happens (the 0756 Cambridge to KX is a good example) but equally this isn’t at the expense of comfort most of the time.

I must be lucky in that I seem to have a habit of missing the worst GN disruption, and it’s about to happen again. My train up today was on time, and it looks like my down train will be on time unless anything goes wrong with the crewing which, touch wood, it shouldn’t!

 

[bramling]

To be fair the original Desiros (350, 444, 450 etc.) did provide quite a nice travel experience.

A very fair point. It’s the city version which is not good, at least not when it’s applied to a longer distance railway.