Great Northern Weekend Cancellations

[petersi]

Still problems this week 12:23 ex Welwyn garden City fall to standing at potters bar makes 3 extra stops to make up for cancelled train. Takes for ever as people struggle to get on packed train.

 

[bramling]

Still problems this week 12:23 ex Welwyn garden City fall to standing at potters bar makes 3 extra stops to make up for cancelled train. Takes for ever as people struggle to get on packed train.

Yes, another shambolic day today, with large numbers of cancellations and delays -- along with consequential overcrowding.

I don't really care if GTR is wholly to blame, but the way they have handled things across the franchise is poor, and it's high time someone else was brought in who knows that they're doing. The DFT's involvement also needs looking at IMO.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Yes, another shambolic day today, with large numbers of cancellations and delays -- along with consequential overcrowding.

I don't really care if GTR is wholly to blame, but the way they have handled things across the franchise is poor, and it's high time someone else was brought in who knows that they're doing. The DFT's involvement also needs looking at IMO.

But I thought ALL of GTR's problems are entirely down to the Guard's all pulling sickies and not coming in to work, and absolutely nothing to do with p*ss poor management?

 

[bramling]

But I thought ALL of GTR's problems are entirely down to the Guard's all pulling sickies and not coming in to work, and absolutely nothing to do with p*ss poor management?

They can hardly blame guards on the GN side!

I have heard it said that the current problems are First's legacy. One way or the other, I can't ever remember anything like this level of unreliability under First - nothing close.

What GTR could do is look to implement some form of emergency timetable so that at least people can plan their journeys around which services are running, or at the very least adjust the diagrams to lengthen those services which are running. This has been going on long enough now for some form of action to be taken to at least mitigate against the effects of the cancellations. Of course no one really gives a stuff about weekends - always been the case.

I'd like to see something like an inquiry into the whole GTR fiasco, so lessons can be learned. Won't happen because I suspect some uncomfortable truths about DFT might emerge too.

To be honest, I'd like to see GTR removed from this franchise. Perhaps the threat of being barred from obtaining future franchises might just kick them into sorting things out.

 

[Hadders]

I have heard it said that the current problems are First's legacy. One way or the other, I can't ever remember anything like this level of unreliability under First - nothing close.

Agree - it was never this bad under FCC.

GTR have had the franchise for two years now so they can't keep blaming the previous franchise holder.

 

[Class 170101]

To be honest, I'd like to see GTR removed from this franchise. Perhaps the threat of being barred from obtaining future franchises might just kick them into sorting things out.

Where does that end? Throw all the players out and then there is no one left to play. Then what does the DfT do?

 

[evergreenadam]

Cancellations continue today, although mostly on Thameslink core route.

 

[bramling]

Where does that end? Throw all the players out and then there is no one left to play. Then what does the DfT do?

This is a fair point. Unfortunately this does expose a pretty fundamental flaw with the privatisation model adopted.

 

[bb21]

Where does that end? Throw all the players out and then there is no one left to play. Then what does the DfT do?

Govia have shown themselves to be an unbelievably incompetent player, in many respects, through the GTR franchise.

Don't just listen to me, I am only quoting what a lot of other industry insiders were saying.

A quite unbelievable pile of shambles, whether they were merely fronting DfT's wishes or not.

 

[Southwest]

GN have a bad track record on this.

Picture the scene, it's just after Saturday lunchtime and you are waiting at Sandy or Biggleswade stations to go to Finsbury Park for an Arsenal home game. The train you want to catch is cancelled (which is bad enough) then the next one arrives and it's a four car unit. By the time you get to Hitchin you can't move and by the time you get to Stevenage you can't breathe.

What muppet scheduler would do this?

 

[petersi]

The slow trains are all 4 car as they a diagramed with the Cambridge stoppers. some stations on the Cambridge branch can only take 4 cars.

 

[TUC]

Whatever the reasons for staff shortages, for a train to sit there with passengers without anyone noticing it's not crewed suggests an utter lack of management grip.

 

[bramling]

The slow trains are all 4 car as they a diagramewith the Cambridge stoppers. some stations on the Cambridge branch can only take 4 cars.

Hence the need for some kind of emergency timetable.

No reason why the three stations can't be skipped and served by bus instead, for example.

Instead GTR do nothing and just allow massive overcrowding instead.

Meanwhile, noticed a few cancellations this morning peak too. Unacceptable.

 

[A0wen]

The slow trains are all 4 car as they a diagramed with the Cambridge stoppers. some stations on the Cambridge branch can only take 4 cars.

I think GTR need to get a bit creative on this - the limitation of 4 car platforms north of Royston has been in place a long time.

Perhaps 'dropping' 4 cars at Letchworth would be the way forward so they would run:

KX - Peterboro (8 car)
Peterboro - KX (8 car)
KX - Letchworth (8 car)
Letchworth - Cambridge (4 car)
Cambridge - Letchworth (4 car)
Letchworth - KX (8 car)

There are sidings at Letchworth where 4 cars could be parked out of the way - it's no different to what LM does with some of the 12 car sets that arrive in Northampton from London where only 4 or 8 cars head onto Birmingham or Crewe.

 

[MikeWM]

Saturday was fun - going to try to get GN services both ways for the first time in ages.

Cambridge->KingsX : was going to get the 1215 - but it was listed as cancelled before I left home, so I rushed and got the 1204 to Liv St instead. Actually when I got to Cambridge it was back to running, though 4-car only, so would probably have been a bit cozy.

KingsX->Cambridge : for the first time in months I went for the 2314, which used to be a train I caught almost every week for many years, until this mess started. The 2214 was cancelled but the 2244 and 2305 ran, so was expecting things to be ok. About 2310 they decided to announce it on platform 4, which was currently empty. An 8-car 365 pulls into platform 8. Then a 8-car 321 (!) pulls into platform 4. Everyone troups on. I wonder if 321s have been cleared to go to Kings Lynn now. But no, apparently not - after a few minutes we're all told to get off and get on the 365 on 8 instead. Eventually leave a not-too-bad 10 minutes late.

So, a different problem at least! I don't remember FCC ever allocating a train that wasn't allowed to actually go to its destination, but very little surprises me about GN anymore.

 

[jon0844]

I know why there are 4 car trains on weekends, but that doesn't mean people have to like it.

Govia, First and even likely National Express would know loadings can be very high on a Sunday, for example, so there should have been plans made to sort the issue out long ago.

It's perhaps especially bad now that on a weekend, you can't just decide to get a 6-car slow train to WGC from King's Cross instead of a crowded 4 car train - unless you go to Finsbury Park instead of King's Cross.

Oh and when a train is cancelled, or even two, in succession then it really does become good fun.. but it's not as if things were ideal even without that added burden.

 

[A0wen]

I know why there are 4 car trains on weekends, but that doesn't mean people have to like it.

Govia, First and even likely National Express would know loadings can be very high on a Sunday, for example, so there should have been plans made to sort the issue out long ago.

It's perhaps especially bad now that on a weekend, you can't just decide to get a 6-car slow train to WGC from King's Cross instead of a crowded 4 car train - unless you go to Finsbury Park instead of King's Cross.

Oh and when a train is cancelled, or even two, in succession then it really does become good fun.. but it's not as if things were ideal even without that added burden.

The bit in bold - I'm sure on previous threads when people were saying there should be weekend services on the Moorgate branch that the downside was the scenario described, but was told it was OK - guess I was right then......

 

[jon0844]

I do think there should be weekend and evening services to Moorgate, but obviously sufficient capacity still needed to be maintained at King's Cross.

And not everyone would think to go to Finsbury Park, although staff could advise. You can take many other trains that will stop there or use the tube.

As I've said elsewhere, once trains are running all over the place in 2018, I expect I'll go to Finsbury Park in the first place.

 

[A0wen]

I do think there should be weekend and evening services to Moorgate, but obviously sufficient capacity still needed to be maintained at King's Cross.

And not everyone would think to go to Finsbury Park, although staff could advise. You can take many other trains that will stop there or use the tube.

As I've said elsewhere, once trains are running all over the place in 2018, I expect I'll go to Finsbury Park in the first place.

There are three downsides with FP though -

1 - in bad weather you get cold or wet waiting on the platform
2- relatively there are fewer facilities than KX
3- from the underground the stairs aren't ideal if you have mobility issues.

 

[jon0844]

There are three downsides with FP though -

1 - in bad weather you get cold or wet waiting on the platform
2- relatively there are fewer facilities than KX
3- from the underground the stairs aren't ideal if you have mobility issues.

1. Yes, that's true.
2. Yes, that's very true too (the toilets for platforms 7/8 are pretty horrid)
3. There will one day be lifts, but I suppose if you took the tube from KGX, you'd be wiser changing with level access at Highbury & Islington.

Assuming Wi-Fi works on the tube (very rarely doesn't), you can keep check when underground and decide the most suitable place to get off.

 

[class387]

I think GTR need to get a bit creative on this - the limitation of 4 car platforms north of Royston has been in place a long time.

Perhaps 'dropping' 4 cars at Letchworth would be the way forward so they would run:

KX - Peterboro (8 car)
Peterboro - KX (8 car)
KX - Letchworth (8 car)
Letchworth - Cambridge (4 car)
Cambridge - Letchworth (4 car)
Letchworth - KX (8 car)

There are sidings at Letchworth where 4 cars could be parked out of the way - it's no different to what LM does with some of the 12 car sets that arrive in Northampton from London where only 4 or 8 cars head onto Birmingham or Crewe.

They do that on some peak services. The 1632 KGX to CBG did the last time I used it.

 

[stut]

They do that on some peak services. The 1632 KGX to CBG did the last time I used it.

Yes, they've been doing that for some time. My first ever trip on that line had me waiting red-faced at Royston (trying to get to Cambridge), as I was listening to my Walkman (that should date it) and missed the announcement about the split...

 

[FordFocus]

Regarding the Moorgate extra trains for the weekend. Was this specified by the DfT or was this a GTR idea in the bid?

 

[jon0844]

I believe it was the DfT. There had been aspirations to do this since the mid 2000s, but issues over who was going to fund it.

FCC was discussing with TfL when it took over in 2006, and that's probably what started the rumours that it might become part of London Overground. For whatever reason, it never happened but I am still sure that shortly before the new trains are put into service, we may well find that TfL steps in. It would make sense to wait until there are shiny new trains working into Moorgate.

Failing that, I think TfL will take over pretty soon afterwards.

 

[petersi]

Tonight's cancellations look as bad as ever
They had the franchise just under 2 years
When will it get better?

 

[dk1]

Tonight's cancellations look as bad as ever
They had the franchise just under 2 years
When will it get better?

No time soon.

 

[Retorus]

More today, two in a row to King's Cross from Peterborough. Poor.

 

[Class 170101]

Saw this. tut tut.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Govia have shown themselves to be an unbelievably incompetent player, in many respects, through the GTR franchise.

Don't just listen to me, I am only quoting what a lot of other industry insiders were saying.

A quite unbelievable pile of shambles, whether they were merely fronting DfT's wishes or not.

What about LM I didn't think they were precieved as too bad there?

 

[Hadders]

What about LM I didn't think they were precieved as too bad there?

I don't know much about LM but they're doing their absolute best to ruin the Great Northern operation.

GN reliability and punctuality was decent under both WAGN and First. GTR get hold of it and it goes to rack and ruin. They claim a shortage of drivers inherited from First but First never cancelled trains at the rate GTR are doing nowadays.

The shortage of drivers excuse is starting to wear a little thin - they told us two years ago they had a large driver recruitment programme. Where are they?

 

[jayah]

Saturday saw our train cancelled but the earlier train that we were going to miss was delayed, which meant catching it and getting home earlier than expected. It would have been a right PITA to have had to wait for almost an hour, so we were very lucky.

The driver who took our train apologised and said he'd been due to go home and had been told to take it (to Cambridge). From sitting inside the carriage I can say that some people were clearly grateful, but one group were less happy and said it was bloody job, and then joking with each other about how easy it was to drive a train etc.

Perhaps the driver, who should be thanked, might want to avoid speaking in the future as many passengers are beyond showing any sympathy.

Simple solution.

For each cancellation, diminish the Senior Management bonus pool by £100. You will see rapid improvements.

Is it really 2 years post FCC and are they really still trying to blame their legacy for the problems?