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Great Western Electrification Progress

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coppercapped

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It wasn't budget constraints, it was simply down to the poor state of the interlocking at Oxford. Network Rail wasn't willing to take the risk that they could do the work required to enable control of additional signalling and points at Wolvercote (or anywhere else around Oxford for that matter) without the entire interlocking suffering a terminal failure, so they left it alone.
Jimm, I'm not trying to quibble, but isn't this essentially what I said? Regardless of whether the work consisted of re-arranging and re-wiring the interlocking or whether the whole system needed replacing the fact remains that the money available for the re-doubling and other works would not stretch to re-doubling Wolvercote Junction. This, to me, is a budget constraint.

Your mileage may differ...:s
 
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takno

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Jimm, I'm not trying to quibble, but isn't this essentially what I said? Regardless of whether the work consisted of re-arranging and re-wiring the interlocking or whether the whole system needed replacing the fact remains that the money available for the re-doubling and other works would not stretch to re-doubling Wolvercote Junction. This, to me, is a budget constraint.

Your mileage may differ...:s
It does sound a tiny bit like a quibble. I think the budget for the recontrol/resignalling at Oxford was at least as much as the entire budget for the Cotswold line improvements. Even if twice the budget had been available, I think the people who were promised a nice upgrade to their line would be justifiably a little miffed to find that half the budget had been spent on resignalling off their patch.
 

Doctor Fegg

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It's never too long before scope creep is being proposed. That's over twice the distance from Wolvercote Jn, so would presumably double the cost of the project. And if that's not want the customer (OCC) is looking for, why would it be done?

OCC's representative on the North Cotswold Line Taskforce, who entirely coincidentally happens to be the councillor for Hanborough, is in a spot of bother at the moment due to some ill-advised comments on Twitter. He posted a few hours ago that he is considering his position.

So don't bet on OCC's position remaining the same in the timescale for this project, particularly if the council changes control next May.
 

Brissle Girl

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Gosh. I think I'd be considering my position if I adopted such a forthright view on a topic I happen to have responsibility for. I don't think I would have to consider it for very long though!
 

WAO

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It's never too long before scope creep is being proposed. That's over twice the distance from Wolvercote Jn, so would presumably double the cost of the project. And if that's not want the customer (OCC) is looking for, why would it be done?

Quote from Robert Courts' (MP) website:

" Residents of West Oxfordshire could be set to benefit from the proposed improvements with the possibility of four trains per hour running at least as far as Hanborough, perhaps to Charlbury or Moreton-in-Marsh."

The North Cotswold Line Taskforce is about more than just Hanborough.

Much of the cost is at the Jn.

WAO
 

Brissle Girl

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Quote from Robert Courts' (MP) website:

" Residents of West Oxfordshire could be set to benefit from the proposed improvements with the possibility of four trains per hour running at least as far as Hanborough, perhaps to Charlbury or Moreton-in-Marsh."

The North Cotswold Line Taskforce is about more than just Hanborough.

Much of the cost is at the Jn.

WAO
Given recent costs of redoubling lines of similar length (eg South Cotswolds), I find it hard to believe that much of the cost of redoubling 10 miles of track (let alone electrifying) would be at the junction, particularly when the issues around Combe and Finstock are brought into the equation if it goes beyond Hanborough.
 

Bald Rick

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Quote from Robert Courts' (MP) website:

" Residents of West Oxfordshire could be set to benefit from the proposed improvements with the possibility of four trains per hour running at least as far as Hanborough, perhaps to Charlbury or Moreton-in-Marsh."

The North Cotswold Line Taskforce is about more than just Hanborough.

Much of the cost is at the Jn.

WAO

Note the word “perhaps”
 

JN114

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4tph to Hanborough?

That’d entail diverting the existing 1tph fast Oxford terminator, and both re-extended Paddington to Didcot semi-fasts to terminate there.

Not a suggestion grounded in reality I fear; never mind other potential markets for those services to be diverted to serve...
 

Doctor Fegg

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4tph to Hanborough is indeed the proposal of the taskforce:

1tph Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Hanborough-Charlbury-Kingham-Moreton-Worcs Parkway-Worc SH-Droitwich-Kidderminster
1tph Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Hanborough-Moreton-Honeybourne-Evesham-Pershore-Worcs Parkway-Worc SH-Worc FS-Malvern Link-Great Malvern (with extensions to Hereford)
1tph Didcot-Culham-Oxford-Hanborough with eventual extension to Stratford-on-Avon via Long Marston
1tph Didcot-Oxford-Hanborough

I have several opinions on this but most of them are not printable on a family-friendly forum such as this...
 

higthomas

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4tph to Hanborough is indeed the proposal of the taskforce:

1tph Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Hanborough-Charlbury-Kingham-Moreton-Worcs Parkway-Worc SH-Droitwich-Kidderminster
1tph Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Hanborough-Moreton-Honeybourne-Evesham-Pershore-Worcs Parkway-Worc SH-Worc FS-Malvern Link-Great Malvern (with extensions to Hereford)
1tph Didcot-Culham-Oxford-Hanborough with eventual extension to Stratford-on-Avon via Long Marston
1tph Didcot-Oxford-Hanborough

I have several opinions on this but most of them are not printable on a family-friendly forum such as this...

Summary from the document:
The options tested in this SOBC are for the first stage in a multi-faceted longer term strategy, which includes:
  • A four trains per hour service between Oxford and Hanborough
  • New connectivity to Stratford-upon-Avon
  • Direct connectivity between the North Cotswold Line and Birmingham (which could be via Kidderminster as illustrated, and/ or via Stratford-upon-Avon and Solihull in a ‘Snow Hill Lines Circular service, or via Bromsgrove)
The NCLTF would seek to consider the case for these further developments together with key partners as and when the core scheme proposed in this SOBC is committed.

1603467733675.png

Taken from http://researchbriefings.files.parl...BUSINESS-CASE-DEC-2019_ISSUE_110120-(002).pdf
 

jimm

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Jimm, I'm not trying to quibble, but isn't this essentially what I said? Regardless of whether the work consisted of re-arranging and re-wiring the interlocking or whether the whole system needed replacing the fact remains that the money available for the re-doubling and other works would not stretch to re-doubling Wolvercote Junction. This, to me, is a budget constraint.

Your mileage may differ...:s

You can call my point whatever you like.

The fact of the matter is that alterations at Wolvercot junction were not part of the redoubling scheme - which was designed to tackle problems caused by trains to London coming off the Cotswold Line late and stuffing up GWML punctuality all the way to Paddington - and the state of the interlocking meant any interim alterations until the full Oxford area resignalling were never an option to begin with.
 

Peter Sarf

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4tph to Hanborough is indeed the proposal of the taskforce:

1tph Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Hanborough-Charlbury-Kingham-Moreton-Worcs Parkway-Worc SH-Droitwich-Kidderminster
1tph Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Hanborough-Moreton-Honeybourne-Evesham-Pershore-Worcs Parkway-Worc SH-Worc FS-Malvern Link-Great Malvern (with extensions to Hereford)
1tph Didcot-Culham-Oxford-Hanborough with eventual extension to Stratford-on-Avon via Long Marston
1tph Didcot-Oxford-Hanborough

I have several opinions on this but most of them are not printable on a family-friendly forum such as this...

Well well, a Southerly route into Stratford-on-Avon. How much is left of the alignment for that ?. For another thread ?.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld

I have a few comments regarding the above diagram:

1) I anticipate that both Finstock and Combe will finally be properly closed when the line is eventually (re)doubled between Hanborough and Charlbury.

2) Is it anticipated that the other two limited service stations of Ascott-under-Wychwood and Shipton will also be closed, being as they are absent from the diagram?

3) How is it expected to make a local journey from either Charlbury or Kingham to Honeybourne, Evesham, or Pershore? Also, is the Malvern/Hereford train (which calls at Honeybourne, Evesham, and Pershore) going to be behind the Kidderminster train (which is the one that calls Charlbury and Kingham) which will enable a simple change of train at Moreton-in-Marsh?

4) I believe it would be better to continue the Kidderminster trains to Stourbridge Junction, as from what I recall (as that was my original neck of the woods) there are various sidings and loops beyond the signalbox (if it is still standing today) at the Wolverhampton/Birmingham end of the platforms. This would help clear the line as there are now 4 trains each hour between Kidderminster and Stourbridge.

5) The final bullet point in the diagram regarding connecting Birmingham with the North Cotswolds would be to keep it simple by extending a Stratford upon Avon train to Honeybourne. I do not want to see a larger version of the 1949-2009 incarnation of London Underground's Circle Line where trains are constantly in orbit, which would make it very hard to recover the timetable in times of heavy delays or disruption. Although London Overground have an Orbirail concept of their network, they are all separate sections with fixed terminal points e.g. Stratford, Richmond/Clapham Junction, Highbury & Islington/Dalston Junction, New Cross Gate/Crystal Palace, West Croydon/Clapham Junction via Peckham Rye. This helps to prevent delays spending around the orbital route.
 
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Brissle Girl

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1) I anticipate that both Linstock and Combe will finally be properly closed when the line is eventually (re)doubled between Hanborough and Charlbury.

2) Is it anticipated that the other two limited service stations of Ascott-under-Wychwood and Shipston-on-Stour will also be closed, being as they are absent from the diagram?
I think you would help the credibility of your opinions with some simple accuracy. The stations are Finstock and Shipton (the village is Shipton-under-Wychwood).
 

76020

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Can someone please tell me where the current western limit is of the electrification on the South Wales main line, I very rarely travel west of Cardiff Central Station, thanks in advance.
 

Brissle Girl

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Can someone please tell me where the current western limit is of the electrification on the South Wales main line, I very rarely travel west of Cardiff Central Station, thanks in advance.
It's effectively the west end of Cardiff Central station.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I think you would help the credibility of your opinions with some simple accuracy. The stations are Finstock and Shipton (the village is Shipton-under-Wychwood).

Apologies regarding Shipton, as the last time I travelled that line was back in 1990. I realise Shipston-on-Stour is not that far from Stratford upon Avon, which is in Warwickshire. I have fixed this.

I'm sure I referred to Finstock together with Combe in the previous post. When I hit the spacebar, this sometimes causes the word to change to something else which I do not always notice immediately.

Anyway, many thanks for not actually commenting on the questions that I had raised in the previous post. I would kindly like my head back when you have finished biting it off.
 

Doctor Fegg

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3) How is it expected to make a local journey from either Charlbury or Kingham to Honeybourne, Evesham, or Pershore?

The number of journeys from Charlbury and Kingham to the Vale of Evesham is very low.

That, however, is not true of journeys to Worcester city centre (ie Foregate Street), Hereford (for the Marches and Wales), and even Malvern, all of which this proposal will nuke. In return we get... Kidderminster? Be still my beating heart.
 

76020

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It's effectively the west end of Cardiff Central station.
Thanks you for your reply, I did go past the old Canton TMD around two years ago and I did notice that there was some sort of electrical sub/feeder station installed there, I guess this is the western limit, if you stand on Cardiff Central station looking west the wires do seem to go on for quite a bit.
Lets hope that they will be extended west in the not too far future, but I think that Chippenham-Bristol TM has more of a chance and before this Hanborough-Didcot looks like it could be top of the list, lets see.
 

takno

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Thanks you for your reply, I did go past the old Canton TMD around two years ago and I did notice that there was some sort of electrical sub/feeder station installed there, I guess this is the western limit, if you stand on Cardiff Central station looking west the wires do seem to go on for quite a bit.
Lets hope that they will be extended west in the not too far future, but I think that Chippenham-Bristol TM has more of a chance and before this Hanborough-Didcot looks like it could be top of the list, lets see.
They stretch down to the Brickyard Sidings iirc, which are used for reversals
 

Horizon22

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4tph to Hanborough is indeed the proposal of the taskforce:

1tph Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Hanborough-Charlbury-Kingham-Moreton-Worcs Parkway-Worc SH-Droitwich-Kidderminster
1tph Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Hanborough-Moreton-Honeybourne-Evesham-Pershore-Worcs Parkway-Worc SH-Worc FS-Malvern Link-Great Malvern (with extensions to Hereford)
1tph Didcot-Culham-Oxford-Hanborough with eventual extension to Stratford-on-Avon via Long Marston
1tph Didcot-Oxford-Hanborough

I have several opinions on this but most of them are not printable on a family-friendly forum such as this...

The Hanborough minor extensions seem perfectly feasible in principle of both the fast from Paddington and the Didcot stopper, but going somewhat into the realms of fantasy with anything else. The Oxford terminator (of which presumably forms the path of this Kidderminster service?) also stops at Slough and that's a considerable extension along the line to Kidderminster which wouldn't get the same demand as Worcester.

2tph is definitely a better step, but 4tph is in the realms of London metro services and can't see it being highly patronised. If it's for operational convenience, then fine but Oxford operations aren't hugely demanding right now.
 

jimm

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The Hanborough minor extensions seem perfectly feasible in principle of both the fast from Paddington and the Didcot stopper, but going somewhat into the realms of fantasy with anything else. The Oxford terminator (of which presumably forms the path of this Kidderminster service?) also stops at Slough and that's a considerable extension along the line to Kidderminster which wouldn't get the same demand as Worcester.

2tph is definitely a better step, but 4tph is in the realms of London metro services and can't see it being highly patronised. If it's for operational convenience, then fine but Oxford operations aren't hugely demanding right now.
All the timetable pattern proposals in the Cotswold Line Task Force report and the Oxfordshire Rail Corridor study remain just that - proposals. Any implementation of these projects is still a long way off - probably all the more so now, until we can fully understand what the coronavirus pandemic means for our future transport needs and where investment should go.

Oxford operations aren't hugely demanding...? Have you ever been to Oxford - with all of two through platforms available - and timed how long the main lines are blocked while an empty train is moved across from the down side carriage sidings into platform 3 to head back towards Reading or Paddington? Reducing the number of such manoeuvres, by sending trains out of Oxford to Hanborough or anywhere else to turn back, can only be a good thing.

The sheer number of new houses being built in Hanborough and the surrounding settlements I mentioned above means there are going to be a whole lot more people in that corner of Oxfordshire wanting to travel in years to come. Oxford's road network is just not up to handling ever more traffic, so they will need other options on their doorsteps, or at least close by, and an electrified railway to Hanborough (and hopefully beyond), with frequent trains, will help to provide that.
 

SouthEastBuses

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I believe the reason why the Oxford electric got postponed was due to the redevelopment of Oxford station, which makes sense due to moving of track layouts etc. However, once the redevelopment is complete, I want electrification back on track.
 
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