Great Western Railway Heathrow Express Class 387 Refittment and Service Updates

[JN114]

It seems to be a very long time to convert only 12 4 car units, when the HST refresh programme was done back in 2006 they would have been finished by now and ready for testing.

There was a long period of limbo in 2019 where they couldn’t progress ETCS fitment as the safety boffins at GW weren’t happy with certain elements of the DVI (Driver/Vehicle Interface), and Bombardier had to go away and rethink their design philosophy. That caused the slip from planned intro in December 2019 through to later this year.

 

[Mikey C]

Why did GWR get so many 387s in the first place? Their allocation always seemed pretty generous, considering the massive increase of capacity between them and the Crossrail 345s over the 165s and 166s.

 

[JN114]

Yes, but that was always the plan.

45 was always an excessive fleet size, supposedly this tie-up has been on the table for a while, just only announced and put into action in past 18 months or so. I wouldn’t be surprised if the order was placed with the HX tie up in the back of the mind.

 

[Mordac]

Oxford was supposed to be electrified when the order was placed.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Oxford was supposed to be electrified when the order was placed.

Yes, the HeX consideration came much later, when the DfT realised there was nowhere else for the 332 fleet to go, having junked the Langley idea.

 

[devonexpress]

Why did GWR get so many 387s in the first place? Their allocation always seemed pretty generous, considering the massive increase of capacity between them and the Crossrail 345s over the 165s and 166s.

Because the original plan was to have all Thames valley services apart from Gatwick electrified, with all 165/166s going to Bristol, this however, didn't happen and as it slipped plans changed but the order had already been done, which is how we ended up with Castle sets and pacers in 2020.

 

[Mikey C]

Because the original plan was to have all Thames valley services apart from Gatwick electrified, with all 165/166s going to Bristol, this however, didn't happen and as it slipped plans changed but the order had already been done, which is how we ended up with Castle sets and pacers in 2020.

It was unlikely that Oxford and the Thames Valley branches would have been electrified quickly though, so the 387s would have been at GWR well before they were all needed?

 

[Non Multi]

It was unlikely that Oxford and the Thames Valley branches would have been electrified quickly though, so the 387s would have been at GWR well before they were all needed?

Quite a few were stored at the freight sidings at Didcot and at North Pole Hitachi IET depot until they could actually be used.

 

[Clarence Yard]

It was unlikely that Oxford and the Thames Valley branches would have been electrified quickly though, so the 387s would have been at GWR well before they were all needed?

December 2018 was the target completion date at one time. The cl.387 fleet was authorized with that in mind.

 

[3973EXL]

5Q50 reported as 57305 387137

Realtime Trains - 562Z 1125 West Ealing Emu Sidings to Ilford E.M.U.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Rtn Ilford - Oxford CS ran light to Wembley

Realtime Trains - 569Z 1436 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 042M 1305 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Wembley H.S.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[JN114]

5Q50 and 0H72 to give their correct train descriptions.

387 wasn’t ready to leave Ilford this afternoon, might be something more in the next few days.

 

[Non Multi]

They could have painted the cab roof! It does look a little bizarre leaving that in green. On the whole thought, it doesn't look too bad.

Good news! The cab roofs are being painted (or wrapped) silver-grey to match, presumably at Ilford. Martin Loader photographed 387131 being dragged to Oxford carriage sidings for storage on June 5th.
Photo: http://www.hondawanderer.com/387131_Culham_2020.htm

 

[py_megapixel]

Looking at the photos in a previous post it seems like they have removed the tables between Standard Class seats. Why on earth would they do that?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at the photos in a previous post it seems like they have removed the tables between Standard Class seats. Why on earth would they do that?

Same as the 332s. It probably makes sense, as the short journey isn't enough to do any serious work, and some people like keeping their bags with them by their knees (the overheads aren't up to much on Electrostars).

 

[py_megapixel]

Same as the 332s. It probably makes sense, as the short journey isn't enough to do any serious work, and some people like keeping their bags with them by their knees (the overheads aren't up to much on Electrostars).

One thing which I find slightly odd is that there is no rolling stock in this country with any attempt at a middle ground between a full table and an empty bay. For example, some of the Deutsche-Bahn regional express rolling stock is fitted with tables which are either half-sized (so there is still room for luggage) or somehow folding, giving passengers a choice in what they would prefer.

The closest I can think of is the 175s, where some of the facing bays have tables and some don't, but that doesn't seem as flexible.

 

[samuelmorris]

Quite a few classes of stock have had areas with half-tables, but I admit it isn't especially common.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing which I find slightly odd is that there is no rolling stock in this country with any attempt at a middle ground between a full table and an empty bay. For example, some of the Deutsche-Bahn regional express rolling stock is fitted with tables which are either half-sized (so there is still room for luggage) or somehow folding, giving passengers a choice in what they would prefer.

The closest I can think of is the 175s, where some of the facing bays have tables and some don't, but that doesn't seem as flexible.

I'm a big fan of that design of table where each person has their own foldy bit - the only place the UK has ever really had them is Eurostar, though Pendolinos have them at the priority seats, admittedly however only the aisle side folds (so they're clearly allowed).

As for half tables, they were common on longer distance London commuter services - e.g. the Silverlink/LM 321s had them, though they were a retrofit at the Silverlink (early 2000s) refurb, as built they had small coffee shelves about 4" wide. They had a downside that because they had to be cantilevered off the sidewall the thick support got in the way of window seat legroom.

 

[Domh245]

Even the photos you've linked to appear to show some sort of sideboard-esque arrangement with a pair of cupholders and just enough width to leave your phone on whilst charging it!

 

[Energy]

Even the photos you've linked to appear to show some sort of sideboard-esque arrangement with a pair of cupholders and just enough width to leave your phone on whilst charging it!

To be fair it is a short journey to heathrow, long enough to get a charge on your phone but too short to get some work done so these look ideal.

 

[TH172341]

One thing which I find slightly odd is that there is no rolling stock in this country with any attempt at a middle ground between a full table and an empty bay. For example, some of the Deutsche-Bahn regional express rolling stock is fitted with tables which are either half-sized (so there is still room for luggage) or somehow folding, giving passengers a choice in what they would prefer.

The closest I can think of is the 175s, where some of the facing bays have tables and some don't, but that doesn't seem as flexible.

Chiltern's 168s at the facing table seating bays have table ends that slide in to give some more room which can be useful. Only one I can think of that is of that design.

 

[Non Multi]

The class 166s have angled mini tables as well as the full size ones. Been a few years since I've been on one, so I presume they've not been removed like the little cast metal trays fitted to the GWR 165s.

Class 166 (FGW) Interior

Interior of GWR 166210, which retains First Great Western colours, seen at London Paddington on 15th August 2017.

www.flickr.com

 

[Horizon22]

One thing which I find slightly odd is that there is no rolling stock in this country with any attempt at a middle ground between a full table and an empty bay. For example, some of the Deutsche-Bahn regional express rolling stock is fitted with tables which are either half-sized (so there is still room for luggage) or somehow folding, giving passengers a choice in what they would prefer.

The closest I can think of is the 175s, where some of the facing bays have tables and some don't, but that doesn't seem as flexible.

Some 377s have half tables, although they are little awkward to use and am not sure that's exactly what you're thinking of.

 

[py_megapixel]

The class 166s have angled mini tables as well as the full size ones. Been a few years since I've been on one, so I presume they've not been removed like the little cast metal trays fitted to the GWR 165s.

Class 166 (FGW) Interior

Interior of GWR 166210, which retains First Great Western colours, seen at London Paddington on 15th August 2017.

www.flickr.com

That's the kind of thing I meant; I can't remember if they have been removed or not

 

[fgwrich]

Good news! The cab roofs are being painted (or wrapped) silver-grey to match, presumably at Ilford. Martin Loader photographed 387131 being dragged to Oxford carriage sidings for storage on June 5th.
Photo: http://www.hondawanderer.com/387131_Culham_2020.htm

Indeed, good to see as they do look a bit more smarter / complete.

The class 166s have angled mini tables as well as the full size ones. Been a few years since I've been on one, so I presume they've not been removed like the little cast metal trays fitted to the GWR 165s.

Class 166 (FGW) Interior

Interior of GWR 166210, which retains First Great Western colours, seen at London Paddington on 15th August 2017.

www.flickr.com

They are still fitted, but unfortunately do end up being covered in god knows what (usually the contents of several fosters, Stella, or Coke cans) on my line and end up as a somewhat sticky mess. Hopefully any refurbishment will cure some of the tatty turbos as some of the big tables weren't that nice either.

 

[Non Multi]

That's the kind of thing I meant; I can't remember if they have been removed or not

Similar tables were also fitted to 321/4s, so presumably someone at Network South East thought they were a good thing.

Still displaying Network SouthEast seats and Silverlink signage, London Midland class 321 no. 321412 interior seen at Tring, 24/02/2015.

Explore MKT Transport Photo- mkttransportphoto.smugmug.com's 6250 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[Bletchleyite]

Similar tables were also fitted to 321/4s, so presumably someone at Network South East thought they were a good thing.

Still displaying Network SouthEast seats and Silverlink signage, London Midland class 321 no. 321412 interior seen at Tring, 24/02/2015.

Explore MKT Transport Photo- mkttransportphoto.smugmug.com's 6250 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

The refurb was done by Silverlink, not NSE, but bizarrely and uniquely the NSE seat fabric wasn't replaced, which was odd given how comprehensive the rest of it was. As built they had coffee shelves about 6" by 3".

 

[RailWonderer]

Quite a few classes of stock have had areas with half-tables, but I admit it isn't especially common.

I don't travel on those often but didn't the 321s transferred from LM and GN to GA have those and GA removed them?

One thing which I find slightly odd is that there is no rolling stock in this country with any attempt at a middle ground between a full table and an empty bay. For example, some of the Deutsche-Bahn regional express rolling stock is fitted with tables which are either half-sized (so there is still room for luggage) or somehow folding, giving passengers a choice in what they would prefer.

The closest I can think of is the 175s, where some of the facing bays have tables and some don't, but that doesn't seem as flexible.

The first class bay in the class 360 has a rounded half table for the two window seats.

 

[ScottGallagher]

The refurb was done by Silverlink, not NSE, but bizarrely and uniquely the NSE seat fabric wasn't replaced, which was odd given how comprehensive the rest of it was. As built they had coffee shelves about 6" by 3".

I might be imagining it but i thought I read once that the covers were replaced by Silverlink but there was an abundance of spare NSE fabric somewhere. The only other London TOC that replaced NSE fabric on BR stock in the first round of franchises was Thameslink and First Great Eastern (possibly SWT on slam door). I recall Silverlink doing the same with the 313's.

 

[fgwrich]

I might be imagining it but i thought I read once that the covers were replaced by Silverlink but there was an abundance of spare NSE fabric somewhere. The only other London TOC that replaced NSE fabric on BR stock in the first round of franchises was Thameslink and First Great Eastern (possibly SWT on slam door). I recall Silverlink doing the same with the 313's.

Wouldn't surprise me, those 313 / 508s were virtually NSE until the end inside.

 

[T-Karmel]

Looking at the photos in a previous post it seems like they have removed the tables between Standard Class seats. Why on earth would they do that?

For exactly the same reason as on current fleet. It's a sales technic they thought of years ago to upsell Business First class tickets. Do you need to finish the presentation before you arrive at meeting? Why not to upgrade to Business First class with a table at every seat, 2 power sockets per seat (comparing to 1 socket per 2 seats in standard) to charge your laptop and mobile and more privacy at single seats so others won't look above your shoulder.

Also, remember if someone starts journey at T5 and gets to the train 10 mins before departure - that already makes 31 mins on board of the train rather than advertised 15 mins.

And you know, time is money. Business customers loves to pay a bit extra for more comfort and that premium feeling.