Great Western Railway Heathrow Express Class 387 Refittment and Service Updates

[Defiance149]

387132, 134, 139 & 140 are, which are at Reading.
Presumably 130, 133, 135, 136, 141 at Ilford already will be, with 131 being done shortly having just joined them.

387130-35/39/40 are all in silver, photos of all bar 387134 on Flickr. 387130/31 were done last summer on their first visit to Ilford and 387133/135 left Ilford some months ago for ETCS testing at Old Dalby, again in silver.

 

[devonexpress]

387134 + 139 (and perhaps another one, couldn't see) at Reading now fully refit internally, along with ETCS. Coming soon to an airport near you!

Hopefully something similar to those First Class seats can be fitted on the GWR IET's, the current ones are basically Standard Class seats with a cushion and recline abilities, it's no longer worth the money for FC! Otherwise these refreshed units look really nice.

 

[JonathanH]

Hopefully something similar to those First Class seats can be fitted on the GWR IET's, the current ones are basically Standard Class seats with a cushion and recline abilities, it's no longer worth the money for FC! Otherwise these refreshed units look really nice.

Huh? Aren't the seats fitted in first class to the updated 387s just the same as standard class seats in IETs with a slightly different cushion design?

Great Western Railway Heathrow Express Class 387 Refittment and Service Updates

Thank you

www.railforums.co.uk

I'm not sure they are what you are looking for in first class on IETs.

 

[Bayum]

What is ETCS and why did the 387s not have it before? Why do they need it now?

 

[cactustwirly]

What is ETCS and why did the 387s not have it before? Why do they need it now?

ECTS is non standard kit, so the 387s weren't originally specced with it.
They need it to work to Heathrow, that line has ECTS instead of the usual TPWS.

 

[43096]

ECTS is non standard kit, so the 387s weren't originally specced with it.
They need it to work to Heathrow, that line has ECTS instead of the usual TPWS.

That doesn't answer what ETCS is, though, and it's not exactly non-standard so much as the new standard (or ought to be).

For the benefit of the question being asked, it's European Train Control System - essentially a new signalling system. I think the 387s had provision for it, but it wasn't fitted when they were delivered as they were not envisioned to be using ETCS-fitted routes in the near future.

 

[superalbs]

Hopefully something similar to those First Class seats can be fitted on the GWR IET's, the current ones are basically Standard Class seats with a cushion and recline abilities, it's no longer worth the money for FC! Otherwise these refreshed units look really nice.

So you want the 800 seats in first class to be replaced by the 800 seats in second class? Why...?

 

[jon0844]

Do they realise that the "welcome landscape" screens are upside down?

Not sure if anyone has said this elsewhere, but I think this will be due to it improving the viewing angle of the display. Most monitors are designed to be positioned on a desk, with people possibly looking down on them from above. A TV would be the other way around (up high, with people looking ahead or from below). So flip the monitor and job done.

 

[Energy]

Not sure if anyone has said this elsewhere, but I think this will be due to it improving the viewing angle of the display. Most monitors are designed to be positioned on a desk, with people possibly looking down on them from above. A TV would be the other way around (up high, with people looking ahead or from below). So flip the monitor and job done.

Although whoever makes the screen system will source the displays probably from a company who also makes the screens in monitors, if they decided to rotate the screen upside down they would do the same on the software and flip what goes on the monitor upside down.

 

[devonexpress]

So you want the 800 seats in first class to be replaced by the 800 seats in second class? Why...?

Read what I put. I want the seats in HEX FC to replace the current 800 FC seats which are no different to standard class seats with a cushion

 

[superalbs]

Read what I put. I want the seats in HEX FC to replace the current 800 FC seats which are no different to standard class seats with a cushion

But the 387 first class seats literally are the seats already on the 800 in second class, with a different cushion...

 

[jon0844]

Although whoever makes the screen system will source the displays probably from a company who also makes the screens in monitors, if they decided to rotate the screen upside down they would do the same on the software and flip what goes on the monitor upside down.

I expect the screen image is being generated by the monitor itself, and so when it is connected to a PC the image will be flipped.

 

[devonexpress]

But the 387 first class seats literally are the seats already on the 800 in second class, with a different cushion...

No they aren't they are different seats, the are closer to HST Standard Class seats.

 

[superalbs]

No they aren't they are different seats, the are closer to HST Standard Class seats.

What? No they aren't, just look at the images to compare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What? No they aren't, just look at the images to compare.

They look similar to the variant of the Fainsa Sophia found on the Scottish Hitachi EMUs, which have a totally different cushion to the 80x version and I think a higher back. Not sure though. If anyone has a picture of the rear of a seat it's pretty obvious if it's a Sophia or not, they are very distinctive in shape.

Edit: post 187 shows the backs clearly, they are definitely Fainsa Sophias.

 

[JN114]

387 shuffle later today:-

OpenTrainTimes

www.opentraintimes.com

OpenTrainTimes

www.opentraintimes.com

Yes, Oxford is correct. Moves will be loco-hauled both ways and operated by Rail Ops Group

 

[fgwrich]

387134 + 139 (and perhaps another one, couldn't see) at Reading now fully refit internally, along with ETCS. Coming soon to an airport near you!

No they aren't they are different seats, the are closer to HST Standard Class seats.

They look similar to the variant of the Fainsa Sophia found on the Scottish Hitachi EMUs, which have a totally different cushion to the 80x version and I think a higher back. Not sure though. If anyone has a picture of the rear of a seat it's pretty obvious if it's a Sophia or not, they are very distinctive in shape.

Edit: post 187 shows the backs clearly, they are definitely Fainsa Sophias.

Correct, they are indeed Fansia Sophia seats. They are a more basic version of the First Class version, which is the same seat back as the standard class version, but without the reclining mechanisim of the First Class. The cushion design is a bit more bulked up than the standard class version (IET Etc) but if they're anything like those found in the Thameslink 700s, they, are, hard.

See here for Spot the Difference:

ScotRail 385 First Class (Half leather Half Moquette / With recline) :

Scotrail | Class 385 104 First Class Saloon at Edinburgh Waverly

cof

www.flickr.com

Thameslink 700 First Class (No recline / same as these in the 387) :

First class in a Class 700

All copyrights belong to Siemens AG, Munich/Berlin World premiere: At this year's Innotrans, Siemens will unveil for the first time three completely assembled cars for the new Desiro City train for the Thameslink project. A mockup of this new Desiro train was already presented to the public in...

www.flickr.com

FYI, The seats in the HST were by Grammer.

 

[fgwrich]

387 shuffle later today:-

OpenTrainTimes

www.opentraintimes.com

OpenTrainTimes

www.opentraintimes.com

Yes, Oxford is correct. Moves will be loco-hauled both ways and operated by Rail Ops Group

Presumably to free up space at West Ealing & Reading? Thinking about it for a moment, is there no space available at Swindon Cocklebury for these?

 

[JN114]

Presumably to free up space at West Ealing & Reading? Thinking about it for a moment, is there no space available at Swindon Cocklebury for these?

Cocklebury is full already with “classic” 387s

 

[FGW_DID]

387138 into Ilford.
387136 out of Ilford.

ROG using 57306 for the moves.

 

[class717]

From Saturday 360s will be running to Terminal 5 instead of 4 as 4 is closed

 

[MotCO]

Because of this, the HEx paths are pretty much useless beyond Airport junction.

Unless any trains from the west terminate at Heathrow. We'll have to wait for a new spur, or have a reversal somehow.

 

[pdeaves]

From Saturday 360s will be running to Terminal 5 instead of 4 as 4 is closed

For the benefit of those of us who are a bit slower off the mark, is this a temporary or permanent situation, please?

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the benefit of those of us who are a bit slower off the mark, is this a temporary or permanent situation, please?

I suspect answering that may require access to a crystal ball.

 

[class717]

For the benefit of those of us who are a bit slower off the mark, is this a temporary or permanent situation, please?

Temporary, Heathrow is closing Terminal 4 and moving all flights to 2 and 5 so no need for services to T4 anymore

 

[pdeaves]

Temporary, Heathrow is closing Terminal 4 and moving all flights to 2 and 5 so no need for services to T4 anymore

This is in reaction to the health issues, I take it? Rather than some other policy that has completely passed me by.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is in reaction to the health issues, I take it? Rather than some other policy that has completely passed me by.

Yes, just reduced capacity at the moment.

When I said the thing about the crystal ball, how permanent it is depends on whether aviation does return to previous levels or not.

 

[berneyarms]

This is in reaction to the health issues, I take it? Rather than some other policy that has completely passed me by.

Flights have been cut back drastically in number - there is no need for T4 right now.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What is ETCS and why did the 387s not have it before? Why do they need it now?

Just to add to what has been said, ETCS (or ERTMS) is the industry standard for the future.
It is already fitted to a number of high speed lines on the continent and elsewhere, and is being rolled out more or less everywhere.
It is a cab signalling system with automatic train protection (ATP) and replaces traditional "lights on sticks".

The UK was slow on the uptake, but fitted the Cambrian system (Shrewsbury-Aberystwyth/Pwllheli) some years ago as a trial.
The intention was to fit the GW main line with it, and then the ECML.
But the GW plan was canned, except that the Heathrow branch was fitted.
That means Heathrow Express needs it, and also Crossrail when it reaches Heathrow.
HEx decided to use GWR 387s instead of refitting their 332 fleet, hence the project to fit the 387s.
It means GW ATP can be retired on the branch.

The ECML is gearing up to fit ETCS from King's Cross to Stoke Tunnel (Grantham), so all trains on the southern ECML will need fitting with the equipment.
There is a test track near Hertford where trains and trackside equipment from various suppliers is tested, also NR's Old Dalby test track is fitted.
HS2 will be fitted with ETCS from the start (HS1 uses the French TVM system as is used on their early high speed lines).
Thameslink has fitted and tested it in the core section, but I don't believe it is used in normal service.

 

[devonexpress]

Any news on when the 387's are due to start operating HEX?