Great Yarmouth - Reedham to close for six months

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trebor79

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I doubt it. Why would that make any sense?
Because the line obviously isn't needed if it can be out of service for an entire year without any impact other than an inability to stop trains at a station which serves nothing other than a no longer running pub?

I don't want that to happen, by the way, but I can see why it might.
 

Ianno87

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Because the line obviously isn't needed if it can be out of service for an entire year without any impact other than an inability to stop trains at a station which serves nothing other than a no longer running pub?

I don't want that to happen, by the way, but I can see why it might.
*Muses*

Supposing you saved the cost of re-instating and continuing to maintain the Berney Arms route and stuffed the money saved into upping the capability of the more useful Acle route instead....
 

MPotter

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Because the line obviously isn't needed if it can be out of service for an entire year without any impact other than an inability to stop trains at a station which serves nothing other than a no longer running pub?

I don't want that to happen, by the way, but I can see why it might.
This raises a few problems: 1) Where do you route the express services without putting them behind the stoppers? 2) What do you do with Berney Arms station given that it is supposed to have a train service in perputity? 3) What do passengers wishing to travel from Reedham to Gt Yarmouth do? Without the line the only method is to get a train (in the opposite direction) to Brundall / Norwich and then a connecting service to Gt Yarmouth. Wouldn't that take too long for these travellers? 4) What do you do with increased traffic on the roads which is likely to occur as a result? 5) What is the point in replacing all the signals, only to close the line?

These problems are very good reasons for Greater Anglia to go for the easy route: keep the line open (once the works are over) and just run occasional services down it, plus additional express service for special occasions therefore keeping everyone happy. This includes: 1) Reedham residents 2) Ramblers 3) Rail passengers 4) Central government 5) The Highways Authority 6) The local authority 7) Network Rail 8) The taxpayer 9) Railway staff and 10) the Environment Agency.
 

twpsaesneg

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Doesn't NR insist contractors now adhere to a 12hr door to door, max 8hr nightshift policy? Hidden dictates 12/72/13.
No. 12 hours site time, 14 hours door to door. Not heard of 8 hours nightshift policy, but some contractors may well put restrictions on.
 

Meole

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*Muses*

Supposing you saved the cost of re-instating and continuing to maintain the Berney Arms route and stuffed the money saved into upping the capability of the more useful Acle route instead....
Or just take the saving, why waste it on the Acle route which has no significant capacity issues.
 

ChiefPlanner

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One is told that the via Berney Arms route was really only maintained / kept to allow an effective 2 track railway for high days and holidays when Yarmouth had a greater range of services from further afield than Norwich - now it is a shuttle , there may well be less cause or need for it .....(just an idea) , one could hardly call Berney Arms a major traffic objective these days .....
 

Ianno87

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Or just take the saving, why waste it on the Acle route which has no significant capacity issues.
Even just a short extension of Acle loop to make it 'Dynamic' or something, plus maybe some 'quick win' line speed improvements (if any exist).
 

yorksrob

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To be fair, seaside towns seem to have ups and downs these days. A few years ago, Folkestone seemed to be on its uppers, however recently it's undergone a bit of a renaissance. Would it be wise to consign Great Yarmouth to single track oblivion on the basis of a current ebb in fortunes ?
 

LAX54

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No. 12 hours site time, 14 hours door to door. Not heard of 8 hours nightshift policy, but some contractors may well put restrictions on.
I think on the Ops side, NR might 'like' 8 hours, but they also know they would have trouble covering shifts, now that 12's have been the 'norm' in many places, plus Romford ROC would be more of a white elephant than it is now !
 

LAX54

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Even just a short extension of Acle loop to make it 'Dynamic' or something, plus maybe some 'quick win' line speed improvements (if any exist).
Get any trouble on the Acle single, then the Reedham route is a quick fix, likewise, issues with Reedham to Lowestoft, they get diverted from Reedham to Yarmouth, with the long sections on the Acle, there would not be enough space
 

Ianno87

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Get any trouble on the Acle single, then the Reedham route is a quick fix, likewise, issues with Reedham to Lowestoft, they get diverted from Reedham to Yarmouth, with the long sections on the Acle, there would not be enough space
My point is to fix it so there is enough space!
 

DynamicSpirit

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Because the line obviously isn't needed if it can be out of service for an entire year without any impact other than an inability to stop trains at a station which serves nothing other than a no longer running pub?

I don't want that to happen, by the way, but I can see why it might.
Out of interest, is there in principle any possible mileage in using the line to run Lowestoft-Yarmouth services, reversing at Reedham?
 

Trainfan344

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Add the 1/1A as well onto that. Buses depart Lowestoft xx:00/xx:15/xx:30/xx:45 So not much use for a train service other than to provide something for enthusiasts.
 

MPotter

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Only if you enjoy pouring money down a drain. The X1 bus service runs every half hour.
How about making tickets to/from Lowestoft valid to/from Gt Yarmouth? That way people can go to Lowestoft, get a bus to Gt Yarmouth and then a train home from there without having to either return to Lowestoft or buy a ticket to Reedham/Brundall?
 

chubs

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To be fair, seaside towns seem to have ups and downs these days. A few years ago, Folkestone seemed to be on its uppers, however recently it's undergone a bit of a renaissance. Would it be wise to consign Great Yarmouth to single track oblivion on the basis of a current ebb in fortunes ?
I don't think they should abolish the Berney Route, but I also think Gt Yarmouth has little chance of a similar renaissance. The top of the North Norfolk Coast around Wells has been on the up for years and even Sheringham and Lowestoft are on the up but Yarmouth is just something else.
 

yorksrob

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I don't think they should abolish the Berney Route, but I also think Gt Yarmouth has little chance of a similar renaissance. The top of the North Norfolk Coast around Wells has been on the up for years and even Sheringham and Lowestoft are on the up but Yarmouth is just something else.
I'm not sure I agree.

I love the North Coast resorts such as Sheringham and Wells, however Great Yarmouth has size on its side, which could help a renaissance.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Only if you enjoy pouring money down a drain. The X1 bus service runs every half hour.
Add the 1/1A as well onto that. Buses depart Lowestoft xx:00/xx:15/xx:30/xx:45 So not much use for a train service other than to provide something for enthusiasts.
Do I spy one of these traps coming where if there are only a few buses, that proves there'd be no demand for the train, but if there are lots of buses that proves you don't need a train... ;)

Looking at it a bit more, I see the X1/X11 also runs from Norwich to Yarmouth every 15 minutes and takes only a few minutes longer than the train. That may have some relevance to the 'you can't have a train if there's a bus every 15 minutes' argument... Maybe you're right and there are other reasons why a train wouldn't be viable, but I don't think you could deduce that purely from the frequent buses.

I also see the 1/X1 take between 45 and 55 minutes to go the just under 10 miles between Lowestoft and Yarmouth. So I would guess that whether a train would attract much custom would depend in part on whether the train can beat that journey time. Checking a few timetables, it looks like about 13-15 minutes from Yarmouth to Reedham, and 24-26 minutes from Lowestoft to Reedham, so that doesn't look very hopeful :(. (How on Earth does it take about 25 minutes to get between Lowestoft and Reedham?!?!? The linespeeds must megaslow)
 

306024

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Not sure you know the demographics of the area. The buses serve where the people want to go, serving a large supermarket, the James Paget hospital and Gorleston along the way. A train service between Haddiscoe to Berney Arms would be more useful to cows than people.

Journey times are slow, Somerleyton and Reedham swing bridges see to that. Add on the time it takes to get to / from the station each end rather than a bus stop and the train gets even less competitive, and then there is the fare itself for those without a bus pass.

Finally don’t forget border control when passing between Suffolk and Norfolk ;)
 

dk1

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Do I spy one of these traps coming where if there are only a few buses, that proves there'd be no demand for the train, but if there are lots of buses that proves you don't need a train... ;)

Looking at it a bit more, I see the X1/X11 also runs from Norwich to Yarmouth every 15 minutes and takes only a few minutes longer than the train. That may have some relevance to the 'you can't have a train if there's a bus every 15 minutes' argument... Maybe you're right and there are other reasons why a train wouldn't be viable, but I don't think you could deduce that purely from the frequent buses.

I also see the 1/X1 take between 45 and 55 minutes to go the just under 10 miles between Lowestoft and Yarmouth. So I would guess that whether a train would attract much custom would depend in part on whether the train can beat that journey time. Checking a few timetables, it looks like about 13-15 minutes from Yarmouth to Reedham, and 24-26 minutes from Lowestoft to Reedham, so that doesn't look very hopeful :(. (How on Earth does it take about 25 minutes to get between Lowestoft and Reedham?!?!? The linespeeds must megaslow)
The trains that take 24mins stop 3 times and until resignalling it is a slow approach to Oulton Broad North in the up direction due to the level crossing. Line speed is 60mph except for 30mph over Somerleyton Swing Bridge & the 20mph around the Reedham/Reedham Swing Bridge curve. Trains usually arrive Reedham a minute or so early.
 

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