Greater Anglia 2019 - Speculation and info

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by Wivenswold, 25 Jul 2017.

  1. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Member

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    Hi all.

    I wondered whether anyone has any information on what the December 2019 GA timetable will look like as I understand that's the one where new service patterns will be introduced. An indicative one was used in the franchise bid and I understand GA planners have been working hard on a full one, possibly for consultation.

    Looking at the lease-end dates, it appears that all but the 10 car Aventras will be in service by then.
     
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  3. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    We got nothing from GA on this in our meeting earlier in the year - my understanding is that the timetable would only be written next year, so until that time all we'd have to go on is the franchise commitments. Subscribing to this one though, relevant to my interests :)
     
  4. AlanFry1

    AlanFry1 On Moderation

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    Aparently Edmonton Green is losing it's morning/evening peak fasts to/from Hertford East
     
  5. 47421

    47421 Member

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    I have been looking out for this too and not seen anything. I did hear they had shared a draft with Railfuture, but it was not for public view. On West Anglia believe Liv St Camb will go to 3 TPH off peak (one fast Tott Hale to Audley End), Hertford East also 3TPH, and Tott Hale to Stratford going 4 TPH, so some big changes on West Anglia.

    I am curious about West Anglia infrastructure changes. Which platforms will be extended? There are loads that are 8 car only now. Cant believe there will be massive extension of SDO at many busy commuter stations, but extending them all is a big job, strange no contracts awarded etc yet.

    Also will the third track Angel Road to Coppermill allow up Lea Valley services to use it, and the new platform at Tott Hale, or is it going to be effectively a glorified siding only for use by a Stratford Angel Road shuttle? Currently the two platforms at Tott Hale can barely cope, and an ability for up trains to run into new platform 3 and the next train then into 2 at the same time will be very useful.
     
  6. cle

    cle Established Member

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    What would journey times be like with an actual fast Cambridge service? Maybe only Bishops Stortford after Tottenham, instead of Audley End...? I know there is some urban myth about Audley End being a mandatory stop, but surely it's well served enough.

    And might that extend to Cambridge North?
     
  7. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    there's currently the 0803 Liverpool Street-Cambridge that runs non-stop Tottenham Hale to Cambridge, doing the whole LST-CBG run in 65 minutes.

    This is little more than an ECS that they decided to make a passenger service for some reason; I believe it's a 12 car 379? Runs like that back to Cambridge because they don't risk splitting in LST. But regardless, it's certainly evidence that Audley End is not a mandatory stop! As is the Saturday only 0456 Cambridge-Stansted Airport
     
    Last edited: 26 Jul 2017
  8. NSE

    NSE Established Member

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    I keep meaning to do that service. But that means hauling my a*se out of bed and getting to LST haha. I do however often use the 16:40 from CBG if I need to go London about that time. 12 car 379, only calls at Audley End and Tottenham Hale. Always empty (obviously, as like you said, its basically a ECS in passenger service), plenty of First Class advances, and I like trains that run fast when normally they don't.
     
  9. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    My impression from what's been said about the extra track for STAR is that it'll be a glorified siding, with actual extra capacity requiring the full rebuild for four track from the Crossrail portals to Broxbourne
     
  10. 87015

    87015 Established Member

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    Not even a glorified siding, just a bog standard long headshunt...
     
  11. TheDavibob

    TheDavibob Member

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    Is there any point, though? Even as a Cambridge resident, I can't see any major reason for it (other than the cheapness of the GA services). Anyone actually going to/from Liverpool Street itself is going to be better off getting the tube from Kings Cross, and anywhere else in the city has more options from Kings Cross (or Finsbury Park). Tottenham Hale has more uses, but there are still better ways to get to most of north London on the GN routes.
     
  12. NSE

    NSE Established Member

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    A 65 minute service will be relatively comparable to Kings Cross and changing for the tube. Sides, it'll be quieter and some people may want somewhere East on the Central Line or Essex bound GA services. I'd use it. I often walk from Liverpool St to London Bridge when going Cambridge-Croydon area.
     
  13. cle

    cle Established Member

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    Exactly, it's a totally different market with different connections. London has expanded and skewed east, not just in business terms but creativity (which is employment), shopping, nightlife etc etc - those students will want nights out in Shoreditch for example.

    Not to mention a future flow of Cambridge to Canary Wharf once Crossrail is operational, for example.

    A better service might well relieve Kings Cross (and Finsbury Park/Vic line through the Tottenham connection).

    I just wish Liverpool Street to Tottenham itself wasn't 15 mins, it should be about 7-8. And that could benefit almost all services.
     
  14. StephenHunter

    StephenHunter Member

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    Will GA be eliminating Romford calls once the Elizabeth line is fully open?
     
  15. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Not if the staff at the ROC have anything to do with it ;)
     
  16. Bishopstone

    Bishopstone Established Member

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    Would have thought the 08.03 Liverpool Street-Cambridge would be quite popular with City folk attending 09.30/10.00 meetings and conferences. Now I'm aware it exists, it's a service I'll file in the memory bank and I'm sure will be useful at some point.
     
  17. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Not really. There's a small number of "in the know" reguars who seem to be aware of it's existence, but it's main market is tourists heading for a day out in Cambridge on cheapo advances (it balances nicely with the 1640 return). Journey planners will still usually come up with Kings Cross as the faster route.

    If you need to be in Cambidge by around 09.30 it's great - head down the front and you'll probably have a carriage to yourself!
     
  18. Alfie1014

    Alfie1014 Member

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    The Franchise Agreement has no obligation for any calls from the May 2019 timetable change (TSR-2), when the off peak frequency on the GEML ramps up; presumably partly on the assumption that the now agreed Crossrail off peak service of 10 trains per hour on the E Lines compensates to some extent. Fitting stops on the MLs with such frequencies is difficult enough today but with extra trains will be even more problematic, plus the platforms at Romford even after being extending for Crossrail trains still won't accomodate a full length GA train without SDO.
     
  19. Z12XE

    Z12XE Member

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    Especially as stops there now outside the off peak pattern correspond with shift change times....
     
  20. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    But no instruction that GA MUST NOT call at Romford either.
     
  21. swills

    swills Established Member

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    Is the ROC not a bit of a White Elephant now ?
     
  22. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Oh most definitely from what I can see but lots of GA (& soon XR) staff are based there.
     
  23. StephenHunter

    StephenHunter Member

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    12 car trains don't stop there anyway (nor do the loco hauled sets); however, the Class 720 will come in a 5 car variety that will fit. Not sure about the 10 car ones.
     
  24. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Member

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    No, the 10 car and 2x5 car Aventras will be the same length as a 12 car in old money.
     
  25. StephenHunter

    StephenHunter Member

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    Fair enough; it'll probably be just the 5 car services. It's only two an hour each way ATM and that's off peak.
     
  26. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    An interesting bit in the Franchise Agreement published is that 26 of the Class 317s are receiving DOO equipment.
     
  27. StephenHunter

    StephenHunter Member

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    By which I am guessing means internal cameras, as they were built for DOO to begin with.
     
  28. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Wait, Tired, got that wrong- I meant SDO!
     
  29. 47421

    47421 Member

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    Yep, extract from franchise agreement below. That is a lot of platforms to upgrade for ASDO, and only just over 12 months to do it. Ditto the platform lengthening - AFAIK no progress on that to date.

    On clause 105.2 I assume 10 vehicles means 10 class 720 vehicles = 12 class 317/321/379 vehicles. Odd that it is not spelt out.


    Automatic Selective Door Operation Installation
    9.1 By no later than 31 October 2018, the Franchisee shall incur expenditure of not less than [REDACTED35] to ensure that Automatic Selective Door Opening technology is operational on twenty seven (27) Class 317 units (the "Class 317 Upgrade Units"), the provision of such Automatic Selective Door Opening technology to encompass correct side door enable and the installation of trackside beacons to ninety six (96) platforms.


    105.2 Pursuant to paragraph 105.1 such changes to the infrastructure shall include such infrastructure works at each of Hertford East, Wickford, Manningtree, Kings Lynn, Elsenham, Ware, St Margarets and Enfield Lock Stations as are necessary to enable any Passenger Services comprised of 10 rolling stock vehicles to call at such Stations by no later than 1 September 2018
     
  30. swills

    swills Established Member

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    2 x 360 did a test trip today (20th) did the trip each way in 87 mins, but of course a Sunday, quiet day too !
     
  31. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    2x360? Really? I thought they weren't supposed to go north of Stowmarket?
     

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