Greater Anglia 2019 - Speculation and info

[dk1]

With regard to the Stan-ex services, could the franchise agreement allow for one of the 4 per hour to be a GA branded service using 720s that go on to Cambridge?

Doubt it. Paths will be pretty scarce for anything additional northwards. Remember that an additional semi-fast Liverpool St-Cambridge is to be introduced & add that to the enhanced Thameslink services there will be 11 passenger trains each way from Cambridge to Shepreth Branch Jcn. Also it woul have to be a double or full length 720 which would be an overkill. It's just not viable as BR found out in the early days of the Stansted Express.

 

[ocelocelot]

Any hints yet on whether timings between Cambridge and Norwich might be reduced with the new FLIRT trains?

I gather there was some doubt as to whether they'd be allowed to run at the higher "Sprinter" speed limits currently available between Ely and Norwich - has this question been resolved now?

 

[StephenHunter]

Not sure, but one will be on display at Innotrans in Berlin, so there might be a picture of the data panel available.

 

[dk1]

Any hints yet on whether timings between Cambridge and Norwich might be reduced with the new FLIRT trains?

I gather there was some doubt as to whether they'd be allowed to run at the higher "Sprinter" speed limits currently available between Ely and Norwich - has this question been resolved now?

No change in journey times expected. Acceleration expected to be slightly better but still no definite answer on SP speeds.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I have been looking out for this too and not seen anything. I did hear they had shared a draft with Railfuture, but it was not for public view. On West Anglia believe Liv St Camb will go to 3 TPH off peak (one fast Tott Hale to Audley End), Hertford East also 3TPH, and Tott Hale to Stratford going 4 TPH, so some big changes on West Anglia.

I am curious about West Anglia infrastructure changes. Which platforms will be extended? There are loads that are 8 car only now. Cant believe there will be massive extension of SDO at many busy commuter stations, but extending them all is a big job, strange no contracts awarded etc yet.

Also will the third track Angel Road to Coppermill allow up Lea Valley services to use it, and the new platform at Tott Hale, or is it going to be effectively a glorified siding only for use by a Stratford Angel Road shuttle? Currently the two platforms at Tott Hale can barely cope, and an ability for up trains to run into new platform 3 and the next train then into 2 at the same time will be very useful.

3tph to Hertford East I could understand, but the implementation will be shoddy as the service will be all over the shop. Then again, this Cambridge fast again also makes little sense. Then again, it would be perfect for swallowing up Kings Lynn...

 

[dk1]

3tph to Hertford East I could understand, but the implementation will be shoddy as the service will be all over the shop. Then again, this Cambridge fast again also makes little sense. Then again, it would be perfect for swallowing up Kings Lynn...

The new faster WA Cambridge service is to try & compete more with the huge market share currently travelling the GN route. Long overdue in my opinion but will only affect reliability.

 

[gingerheid]

Any rumours as to what Cambridge North will be seeing in the way of London services?

 

[47421]

Any rumours as to what Cambridge North will be seeing in the way of London services?

No one knows for sure. Its 3 years since the franchise was awarded but there seems to be no hard info on various things including:

(a) whether the May 2019 TSR 2 will be delivered (4 TPH all day Southend, 3 TPD all day Hertford East, hourly Norwich to Cambridge extended to Stansted Airport all day, hourly Liv St Ipswich semifast extended to Norwich all day) and

(b) what infrastructure changes will be made and when, and if not what are the consequences. Franchise agreement includes below requirements. Clearly the listed stations were included for a reason. I dont know for sure but I think in some cases eg Hertford East it is because more than 8 cars is not permitted at all because signals are at end of platform and it is not permitted to start service from beyond the signal, and in others it is because 8 car + can only stop using SDO if rear of train is off platform and will block crossing eg Enfield Lock up direction, and Elsenham


Any GA or Network Rail insiders with any info on this? Is the May 2019 timetable change on track or will it be dropped? Is there a timetable for the platform extensions?


105. Infrastructure upgrades

105.1 By no later than 1 May 2019, the Franchisee shall make all necessary changes to the infrastructure of the Stations (including relevant associated infrastructure surrounding such Stations) in order to accommodate the Passenger Services as set out in TSR2 and the Franchhisee shall incur a minimum expenditure of [REDACTED120] in doing so.

105.2 Pursuant to paragraph 105.1 such changes to the infrastructure shall include such infrastructure works at each of Hertford East, Wickford, Manningtree, Kings Lynn, Elsenham, Ware, St Margarets and Enfield Lock Stations as are necessary to enable any Passenger Services comprised of 10 rolling stock vehicles to call at such Stations by no later than 1 September 2018.

 

[Alfie1014]

May 2019 is defo delayed as GA aren’t shown in RDGs list of changes for this timetable. So December 2019 at the earliest. Whether that means May 2020 for TSR3 slips back to Dec 2020 is unclear. But as GA seem very tight lipped on almost any detail on their future timetable plans it’s anybody’s guess!

 

[dk1]

There are known timetabling issues with the Norwich extension to Stansted during the Monday-Friday morning peak but later in the day & weekends appear to be ok. Gone very quiet on the half hourly Great Yarmouth proposal though.

 

[adrock1976]

There are known timetabling issues with the Norwich extension to Stansted during the Monday-Friday morning peak but later in the day & weekends appear to be ok. Gone very quiet on the half hourly Great Yarmouth proposal though.

Regarding the Great Yarmouth proposal, it it intended to run the half hourly services via Acle, or to alternate them between Acle and Reedham?

 

[dk1]

Regarding the Great Yarmouth proposal, it it intended to run the half hourly services via Acle, or to alternate them between Acle and Reedham?

It's all gone mute. Reedham would be the obvious answer but who knows. In an ideal world all down trains would go Acle & up trains Reedham but with intermediate stations it's not practical. A clockface interval service is not possible via Acle. I've often thought of that. If the loop continued to just the Acle side of Lingwood it would be perfect but that's never going to happen.

 

[47421]

GA accounts for year to 31 March 2018 just been published. Oh dear. £2.5m loss BUT that is After Abellio and Mitsui chipped in £80m of the £272m committed shareholder funding, so without that would have been £82.5m loss.

Presumably both premium payments to DfT and lease payments for new fleet will increase year on year from now. In which case at the current rate the Franchise will burn through all the shareholder funding VTEC style in 2 years or so.

Available here https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07861414/filing-history

See note 17 on page 29 and note 24 on page 36

 

[greatkingrat]

It doesn't work like that. The £80m is a loan and isn't being used to subsidise day to day operating losses, it is being used for investment, presumably related to new trains / depot upgrades etc.

In 2017/18 GA received £30m of funding from the parent companies, and their fixed assets increased from £15.0m to £43.6m.

The only actual loss is the £2.5m shown. Obviously if GA make losses every year they may be unable to pay back the loan, but they made £15.5m profit in 2016/17 and there is no reason to think they will be unable to make profits in future years.

 

[StephenHunter]

On another topic, I note that the FLIRTs only have the last three digits of the unit on their front, which is a return to the old Eastern Region practice.

 

[TrainTube]

Exactly, it's a totally different market with different connections. London has expanded and skewed east, not just in business terms but creativity (which is employment), shopping, nightlife etc etc - those students will want nights out in Shoreditch for example.

Not to mention a future flow of Cambridge to Canary Wharf once Crossrail is operational, for example.

A better service might well relieve Kings Cross (and Finsbury Park/Vic line through the Tottenham connection).

I just wish Liverpool Street to Tottenham itself wasn't 15 mins, it should be about 7-8. And that could benefit almost all services.

If you think that's bad going to Bromley south takes 20 mins non stop from Victoria.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

If you think that's bad going to Bromley south takes 20 mins non stop from Victoria.

Which isn’t at all bad when you consider the real journey time is about 16 minutes and that there are a lot of places the same distance from London that can only dream of such a service!

 

[TrainTube]

Which isn’t at all bad when you consider the real journey time is about 16 minutes and that there are a lot of places the same distance from London that can only dream of such a service!

I believe its more like 23 mins, may be wrong. To be honest I'm used to 15 min services from Waterloo to Surbiton in Zone 6.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I believe its more like 23 mins, may be wrong. To be honest I'm used to 15 min services from Waterloo to Surbiton in Zone 6.

It is entirely possible to do it in 16 minutes; they may be 23 mins on the up with extra time or via Catford but I know I’ve done Victoria to Bromley in 15 1/2 mins and it’s relatively normal.

 

[berneyarms]

If you think that's bad going to Bromley south takes 20 mins non stop from Victoria.

Looking at RTT for later today, taking two non-stop trains, the 09:55 Victoria - Ashford Intl is scheduled to take 15.5 mins to Bromley South, as is the 10:10 Victoria-Dover per the working timetable (16 mins in the public one).

Trains to Victoria take 20 mins but probably have some additional timing allowances built into them.