Greater Anglia 2019 - What could possibly go wrong?

[trebor79]

Even the driver looked totally fed up as it pulled into Diss!
Be better off leasing a load of Mk2s from DRS and an 86. Much better travelling environment and I'm sure you'd sell sell a load of extra tickets too!

 

[Dave1987]

Yes when I caught the bins from Diss last week the train was already quite full. Oddly, most people did seem to be going all the way to London though?
Dreadful train though, just horrible.

Well the people of Southend, Clacton, Braintree, Harwich etc etc have suffered the indignity of travelling on them for years and years, and will be travelling on them for a while longer yet.

 

[700007]

Well the people of Southend, Clacton, Braintree, Harwich etc etc have suffered the indignity of travelling on them for years and years, and will be travelling on them for a while longer yet.

In their defence, the journey times to these stations aren't as long and at the same time when you are travelling on an intercity route, ideally you would want an intercity spec train (knowing these do run the route) and not a commuter one? A bit like catching an LNER service expecting a HST/225/Azuma and then a pair of 365s turn up to work the service instead. There is huge love for the 365s, as there is for 321s, but they're ultimately not intercity trains which leads to an uncomfortable journey.

 

[Dave1987]

In their defence, the journey times to these stations aren't as long and at the same time when you are travelling on an intercity route, ideally you would want an intercity spec train (knowing these do run the route) and not a commuter one? A bit like catching an LNER service expecting a HST/225/Azuma and then a pair of 365s turn up to work the service instead. There is huge love for the 365s, as there is for 321s, but they're ultimately not intercity trains which leads to an uncomfortable journey.

That's the first time I've ever heard someone say about "huge love" for 321's. Maybe with enthusiasts they are loved. But they are the absolute backbone of the GEML at the moment that is for sure, and for the huge majority of passengers on GEML they would not have a service if it wasn't for 321's at the moment.

 

[HH]

Was looking at the old signal box on Chelmsford Station this morning. Looks like a total fire hazard to me and also close to collapse, which might be dangerous for those below. Anyone know why something hasn't been done about it?

 

[delticdave]

JC regularly gets included in Twitter complaints re the BTR line perhaps campaigning to help his constituents re Cressing loop would have helped reduce the complaints.

Whilst we are on the subject the Southminster line needs loops at Woodham and Burnham for the same reasons. don't suppose we will ever see either.

Why new loops at S. Woodham & Braintree, better frequency perhaps?
The current 40 minute service does provide good connections with the Southend trains & that would only improve if the branch could support a 20 minute service.

 

[samuelmorris]

Why new loops at S. Woodham & Braintree, better frequency perhaps?
The current 40 minute service does provide good connections with the Southend trains & that would only improve if the branch could support a 20 minute service.

Southend is imminently going to 15 minute service interval though, so 30 would technically make more sense.

 

[delticdave]

Southend is imminently going to 15 minute service interval though, so 30 would technically make more sense.

Good point Sir. It would require an extra unit (hopefully short enough to fit into the Wickford bays.....) with longer turn-round times at each end. I suspect the the end-to-end running times would be longer though, with the two extra loops.

Pie in sky though, who would pay for the new loops, the extra unit & crews?

 

[samuelmorris]

Good point Sir. It would require an extra unit (hopefully short enough to fit into the Wickford bays.....) with longer turn-round times at each end. I suspect the the end-to-end running times would be longer though, with the two extra loops.

Pie in sky though, who would pay for the new loops, the extra unit & crews?

Depends how demand is growing from the likes of South Woodham and Burnham. It's most likely the peak time through services to London that are the most valuable on the branch rather than upping the off-peak service frequency. Even as it stands infrastructure work would be necessary to deliver the franchise agreement as it stands since the 720/5s still don't fit into the Wickford bay do they?

 

[Wivenswold]

So, we're approaching halfway in this week. Weren't we expecting news of a new "issue".

Surely the biggest issue is the delay of the 720s leaving us with a lot of toilet-less trains in the new year.

 

[hwl]

So, we're approaching halfway in this week. Weren't we expecting news of a new "issue".

Surely the biggest issue is the delay of the 720s leaving us with a lot of toilet-less trains in the new year.

The 345s and 710s should all be completed by the end of August which should allow them to get on with the Anglia and SWR units

 

[Wivenswold]

I'm sure I read that 345 production has ceased just shy of 60 units and construction lines were given over to 710/720s for now. I should also say that "Completed" does not necessarily mean "ready to hand over to TOC".

 

[hwl]

I'm sure I read that 345 production has ceased just shy of 60 units and construction lines were given over to 710/720s for now. I should also say that "Completed" does not necessarily mean "ready to hand over to TOC".

66 (of 70) 345s so far and 12x 4car 710s (or less) to go.

They have been producing the odd 720/701 between the 345s and 710s, which enables testing of those classes to start in advance of full production.

 

[vinnym70]

Was looking at the old signal box on Chelmsford Station this morning. Looks like a total fire hazard to me and also close to collapse, which might be dangerous for those below. Anyone know why something hasn't been done about it?

If I remember correctly, the signal box was planned to be removed as part of the overall station renovation that is now complete. Something happened during the planning stage that deemed removal too costly/hazardous/difficult to be undertaken. I think you're right though - at some point it's going to have to be dealt with. Ideally it makes sense to plan to do it rather than be forced to do it on an unplanned basis!

 

[vinnym70]

As a Braintree resident I really don't see the business case for more than 1 tph. Even the peak services are lightly loaded.

I appreciate some of that is because folks choose to drive elsewhere so as not to have to deal with the service pattern - but habits like that are hard to break.

I'd gladly accept having to change if the Braintree branch was a shuttle - it makes sense that this is a good way to insulate it from mainline disruption which is an absolute bu88er right now.

 

[Tube driver]

Everybody I know who lives in and around Braintree just drives to Witham to pick up their train due to late notice cancellations or delayed service. It does seem that no matter what happens on the GA network, cancelling Braintree trains is the first order of business.

They’d happily use the Braintree branch but simply can’t rely on it so don’t bother. Money saved on fares goes on petrol.

 

[dk1]

Everybody I know who lives in and around Braintree just drives to Witham to pick up their train due to late notice cancellations or delayed service. It does seem that no matter what happens on the GA network, cancelling Braintree trains is the first order of business.

They’d happily use the Braintree branch but simply can’t rely on it so don’t bother. Money saved on fares goes on petrol.

It's still very well used in the peak but hear what you say. Another reason a shuttle would be far more reliable connecting into the next available rather than a 40-60 minute wait at the branch line station.

 

[vinnym70]

Agreed lots of folks travel elsewhere. But my take on the Braintree branch is that an annual season is only around GBP200 more than from Witham. By the time you factor in additional fuel and higher parking costs commuting from Witham is, I believe significantly more expensive over the course of the year. Plus you have the conundrum of where to park if you commute later in the day - it's not uncommon for the Witham station car parks to be full by 8:30/9:00am.

It really is a pity the Braintree branch suffers so badly when there's disruption. I get that there are practicalities to consider but at the first sign of disruption it makes sense to me to revert Braintree to a shuttle at the very least.

 

[JW16]

Does anyone have any thoughts about whether Ingatestone or Hatfield Peverel stations are likely to get improved service levels in future, especially at peak times?

HP in particular looks to have quite a poor peak morning service, with trains at 7:02, 7:33 and 7:48 and that’s sort of about it for anyone who needs to be in the office by 9:00. I realise these stations have low patronage but with more people moving out of London into commuter belt should these be improved?

 

[306024]

The new trains will provide greater seating in the peak which is designed to cope with growth in the foreseeable future. Stopping more trains at these stations, even with their improved acceleration, will only slow down other trains even more. Many peak trains on the GEML already have pathing time, the priority should be for speeding those up if at all possible, not providing a more frequent service to minor stations.

 

[vinnym70]

Does anyone have any thoughts about whether Ingatestone or Hatfield Peverel stations are likely to get improved service levels in future, especially at peak times?

HP in particular looks to have quite a poor peak morning service, with trains at 7:02, 7:33 and 7:48 and that’s sort of about it for anyone who needs to be in the office by 9:00. I realise these stations have low patronage but with more people moving out of London into commuter belt should these be improved?

There's some parallels here with the arguments about increasing the Braintree branch in so much as those wanting more frequent trains will gravitate towards Witham, Chelmsford or Shenfield. I'd also assume that any increase in service patterns for these villages would be directly coupled to significant increases in new housing being built. I'd definitely like to see improved service frequencies for all the smaller station/branches but I don't see this as likely. Initiatives like Norwich in 90 will, if anything, block this potential.

 

[Panupreset]

In their defence, the journey times to these stations aren't as long and at the same time when you are travelling on an intercity route, ideally you would want an intercity spec train (knowing these do run the route) and not a commuter one? A bit like catching an LNER service expecting a HST/225/Azuma and then a pair of 365s turn up to work the service instead. There is huge love for the 365s, as there is for 321s, but they're ultimately not intercity trains which leads to an uncomfortable journey.

Clacton to London is 90 minutes ish. Pretty much like coming from Stowmarket or Diss and that’s 321’s and 360’s.
London to Norwich end to end has to be one of the shortest ‘intercity routes’ and really now we are talking about Norwich in 90 it’s perhaps time to consider it outer suburban and the rest of us to stop having to wait at Colchester, Witham and Shenfield for late running 1P’s all the time.
I find it ridiculous so many people hang around at Liv St or Stratford for the Chelmsford intercity for example rather than get on a Clacton/Ipswich/Braintree/Colchester Town.

 

[samuelmorris]

Clacton to London is 90 minutes ish. Pretty much like coming from Stowmarket or Diss and that’s 321’s and 360’s.
London to Norwich end to end has to be one of the shortest ‘intercity routes’ and really now we are talking about Norwich in 90 it’s perhaps time to consider it outer suburban and the rest of us to stop having to wait at Colchester, Witham and Shenfield for late running 1P’s all the time.
I find it ridiculous so many people hang around at Liv St or Stratford for the Chelmsford intercity for example rather than get on a Clacton/Ipswich/Braintree/Colchester Town.

Old and creaky though they may be, a Mk3 in standard is probably still more comfortable than a 321 or 360, especially the former in summer.

 

[delticdave]

Clacton to London is 90 minutes ish. Pretty much like coming from Stowmarket or Diss and that’s 321’s and 360’s.
London to Norwich end to end has to be one of the shortest ‘intercity routes’ and really now we are talking about Norwich in 90 it’s perhaps time to consider it outer suburban and the rest of us to stop having to wait at Colchester, Witham and Shenfield for late running 1P’s all the time.
I find it ridiculous so many people hang around at Liv St or Stratford for the Chelmsford intercity for example rather than get on a Clacton/Ipswich/Braintree/Colchester Town.

The IC might be more comfortable, 2 + 2 seating & better legroom?
Back in the day when Clacton & Walton were served by proper "main-line" EMU's then waiting for a Norwich service wouldn't make sense, (& it probably didn't call at Chelmsford...) but today's outer-suburban EMU's are just people carriers. If the 360's had a similar interior to the 350/1's then I'd find them acceptable, but not the 321's.

 

[RailWonderer]

Clacton to London is 90 minutes ish. Pretty much like coming from Stowmarket or Diss and that’s 321’s and 360’s.

Because of the lack of paths on the GEML and that it can never be 4 tracked, Clacton passengers just have to deal with the fact their service has to be a stopping commuter service not a Clacton Express of the past.
When the timetable is recast and they can squeeze out an extra path or two, a Clacton Express could be possible with a stopper ending at Colchester, but I doubt it.

London to Norwich end to end has to be one of the shortest ‘intercity routes’

Euston-Brum VT services are 1 hour 20 and the Paddington-Bristol TM are 1 hour 45, Norwich is allowed to be an IC route plus there aren't any alternate, faster ways to get there.

 

[Wivenswold]

Also in defence of the Class 321s they weren't built for long-distance commuter journeys. Us "Outer Essex" passengers are sitting on trains originally designed for West Anglia outer-suburban services. They've served Essex very well, not that they're going anywhere this year.

It would be good if they could squeeze an "Essex Express" in behind one of the Inter-City services. 2x5 cars non-stop Stratford to Colchester with the IC ahead doing first stop Ipswich. The Essex Express could split at Colchester with one half off to Harwich, the other to Clacton (CLT) stopping all stations COL-CLT. This would give a number of communities along my line a regular direct train to Clacton and London. The semi-fast CLT to LST and Walton/Colchester service pattern could continue too.

Now I'll try to work out how it would work in practice and hit several snags.

While I'm here, any news on when the first 720 is expected at Ilford?

 

[Dave1987]

There has been so much focus by politicians on the Norwich to London services that the Essex outer suburban areas almost seems forgotten about despite the fact that the majority of the passengers and revenue comes from this area. We have the mad situation where people are not going to their local station to get their train to London but driving to a bigger hub station simply because the service to their local station is so poor. That simply increases congestion around the hub stations even more. Maybe once the whole fanfare about the Ni90 has died down the politicians and railway can concentrate on making the journey for the majority of passengers better with decreased journey times, then the railway might be able to tempt more people off of the A12 and onto trains.

 

[Pugwash]

In their defence, the journey times to these stations aren't as long and at the same time when you are travelling on an intercity route,

The journey time to Clacton from Liverpool St is 92 mins. In theory longer than to Norwich.

 

[Trainfan344]

755410 has entered service today, working on the diagram beginning with the 07:47 Lowestoft to Norwich

 

[samuelmorris]

I notice the track defect at Romford is still there (where a loud bang occurs when the first axle of an eastbound fast train passes over it), years after it first appeared. I wonder why this still hasn't been dealt with, given the number of engineering possessions there have been in that time?