Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

[jopsuk]

the train length would be good (excellent even) if the platform length thing had been properly thought through and a major infrastructure plan put in place to avoid ANY SDO with 240m platforms throughout and if the Hertford East branch had been ceded to London Overground

 

[MrPIC]

how is eg Shelford Down platform going to be solved? A 10 car 720 would foul the crossing- is the platform to be extended, or will the train be stopped with the cab not at the platform?

There's a few places like that, and yes, they will be ASDO front, with the cab off the platform.

I think 700/710 style trains in fixed 8 cars with longitudinal seating would have been best for the Hertford line, but that kind of seating is no good for the roughly 90 minutes to Cambridge. Unless there were tons of subfleets for the different routes it's a tough one to organise

Edit: if you look closely at Brinsdown and Enfield Lock Upplatforms you can see the covered up new stop boards off the end of the platforms

 

[Bikeman78]

The majority of platforms are 8 car only along the WAML, only a few places are actually 12. Like I said, it will have to be ASDO everywhere thats not 12 car long, which is fine, but there are some issues at some locations such as Enfield Lock and Brimsdown where a platform starter signal will have to be moved in order to allow a 10/12 car train stopped there not to be foul of the crossing.
There's also the discussed problems at Hertford East where both platforms are only 8 car, and apparently there's a lot of work to remove the listed signal box, move the junction and then extend the platforms. Until then its fairly impossible for anything longer than 8 coaches to venture down the branch, which precludes most Lea Valley stations as well (As the Hertford trains are all stations down the Valley.
I'd hazard a guess that the Bishop's Stortford - Stratford services would be the first WA services to be 720 operated, as they seem the most "self contained", and they are the first services to be chopped in the event of disruption/failure.

Currently I believe the only WAML 12 cars are a couple of Kings Lynn/Cambridge peak trains, with extremely limited stops. They used to run some of the STANEX as 12 but not since the last timetable change, and again, they only stopped at 12 car platforms (BIS,HWN,SST,SAW,CHN,TOM).

Is there a problem with stopping trains on full barrier level crossings? It's happened at Littlehaven for as long as I can remember. Used to be peaks only as most off peak trains were four car but now it's every half hour every day. Also happens at Billingshurst, unless they've lengthened the up platform to 12 cars?

 

[Bletchleyite]

These trains are just too long. Let’s say they use ASDO. A 10 car 720 ~ 12 car legacy train (317/321/360/379).
That means 6.66 cars of a 720 will be able to open, so let’s say 7. Now on a crowded peak train that means the entire 3 rear coaches (and they are 24m long) won’t open, dwell times will be awfully long and some people won’t get on/off because they have to run down the aisle if they even can.

These are commuter trains - commuters know where they're meant to be and don't get caught out. It's entirely normal to have some coaches locked out at some stations on commuter routes.

 

[jopsuk]

Is there a problem with stopping trains on full barrier level crossings? It's happened at Littlehaven for as long as I can remember. Used to be peaks only as most off peak trains were four car but now it's every half hour every day. Also happens at Billingshurst, unless they've lengthened the up platform to 12 cars?

it increases barrier down time, which has negative effects regarding road user behaviour (drivers, pedestrians, cyclists all) and as such is a safety risk.

 

[K.o.R]

it increases barrier down time, which has negative effects regarding road user behaviour (drivers, pedestrians, cyclists all) and as such is a safety risk.

"Due to increasing unsafe behaviour at this crossing it will be permanently closed."

 

[jopsuk]

"Due to increasing unsafe behaviour at this crossing it will be permanently closed."

If Network Rail could, they would!

 

[KC1]

Is there a problem with stopping trains on full barrier level crossings? It's happened at Littlehaven for as long as I can remember. Used to be peaks only as most off peak trains were four car but now it's every half hour every day. Also happens at Billingshurst, unless they've lengthened the up platform to 12 cars?

And at Whyteleafe and Whyteleafe South.

 

[Bikeman78]

it increases barrier down time, which has negative effects regarding road user behaviour (drivers, pedestrians, cyclists all) and as such is a safety risk.

Well if they're willing to do it at Littlehaven, which is on a curve, busy road and busy station in the peaks, then no obvious reason springs to mind why it would be a problem at Brimsdown or Enfield which also have a half hourly stopping service but on a staight line. Littlehaven was lengthened from four to eight cars quite recently. Goodness knows why they didn't increase it to 12 cars given that nearly all the stoppers are 12 now.

 

[ashkeba]

If Network Rail could, they would!

They could but someone never wants to pay for bridges.

 

[MrPIC]

Well if they're willing to do it at Littlehaven, which is on a curve, busy road and busy station in the peaks, then no obvious reason springs to mind why it would be a problem at Brimsdown or Enfield which also have a half hourly stopping service but on a staight line. Littlehaven was lengthened from four to eight cars quite recently. Goodness knows why they didn't increase it to 12 cars given that nearly all the stoppers are 12 now.

But why do this when you could do SDO front and eliminate the problem?

 

[Domk]

5 car stopping markers have gone in (covered) at Lea Bridge

 

[Railperf]

5 car stopping markers have gone in (covered) at Lea Bridge

Beyond the platform there is a covered up sign ..maybe for 2x 5-car

 

[southern442]

And at Whyteleafe and Whyteleafe South.

Whyteleafe is a weird one, an up 8-car 455 clears the crossing by a considerable distance but the crossing sensors must still detect it because the barriers don't go up until it has left the platform.

 

[Bikeman78]

Beyond the platform there is a covered up sign ..maybe for 2x 5-car

I'd expect all the Stratford to Bishop's Stortford and Meridian Water trains to be single 720s. The bay platform at Meridian Water is just long enough for a pair of 317s. A 10 car 720 won't fit.

 

[MrPIC]

Absolutely right, the LVR is only 8 car platforms throughout. I'm expecting a lot of the west anglia timetable to change over the next 12-24 months, which may well mean a couple of 5 cars are on Meridian Water shuttles all day, and the Bishop's Stortford to Stratford paths used for additional Hertford's or Cambridges.

 

[MrPIC]

Apparently over 80 Class 720 carriages have been built so far, Derby must be heaving with them!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently over 80 Class 720 carriages have been built so far, Derby must be heaving with them!

I drove past there on Sunday afternoon and there were loads of them in the sidings.

 

[ashkeba]

Have we had any interior videos other than the official

? I'm really interested to see the rest of the cabin in a less controlled way.

 

[MrPIC]

It pretty much is as that video shows, seats, seats and more seats.

 

[samuelmorris]

Have we had any interior videos other than the official

? I'm really interested to see the rest of the cabin in a less controlled way.

Imagine a 345 but with carpets, toilets, all 3+2 transverse seating and plug sockets. That video is basically all you need as far as I can tell, seems to give a good enough view of what's what. However, if you want more:
https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1040194849415286784
https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1040195240743915520

 

[ashkeba]

Imagine a 345 but with carpets, toilets, all 3+2 transverse seating and plug sockets. That video is basically all you need as far as I can tell, seems to give a good enough view of what's what. However, if you want more:
https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1040194849415286784
https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1040195240743915520

Thanks. So are there no luggage racks or bike racks? Are these going on the boat trains to Harwich for Holland? Or will those services get a 745?

 

[MrPIC]

That will be 720. 745's on the London to Norwich and London to Stansted only.

 

[3141]

Thanks. So are there no luggage racks or bike racks? Are these going on the boat trains to Harwich for Holland? Or will those services get a 745?

I see luggage racks on the video.

 

[jopsuk]

there's an area with fold up seats and retractable straps (and possibly notches for supporting your bike by the pedal axle? not sure if they're in the final design). This has an official capacity of four bikes.

There's one area per unit.

Regardless of subclass.

 

[ashkeba]

I see luggage racks on the video.

Where, please? I did not spot them.

And 4 bikes per unit is a big step backwards from 4 bikes per carriage. Completely unsuitable for Cambridge. Is this GA or DfT specifying?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where, please? I did not spot them.

And 4 bikes per unit is a big step backwards from 4 bikes per carriage. Completely unsuitable for Cambridge. Is this GA or DfT specifying?

Which units take 4 bikes per carriage?

 

[MrPIC]

The punters want seats, so DfT specified seats. We getting seats there'll be as much cycle space as there is with a 379 or a 317 without the old parcels section.

 

[ashkeba]

Which units take 4 bikes per carriage?

Electro stars and the trains before them. 4 bikes per unit was a stupid limitation only on the GA diesel trains until now.

 

[jopsuk]

Erm, no, the official limit on the current electric units is four per unit, not per carriage, and you're supposed to use the wheelchair area for them.

Now, I've taken my bike many times on GA services with way more than 4 bikes and almost always used the vestibules, as that's common practice and tolerated. But the rules are four per unit. Which would be equivalent to 6 spaces on 720/5 or 12 spaces on a 720/1