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Greater Anglia PBoro to Ipswich service abandoned

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AndrewE

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I can't see this mentioned elsewhere... NRE say
Recent signalling problems have resulted in a shortage of trains. As a result, a reduced train service is running between Ipswich and Peterborough.
Buses will run in place of cancelled trains. This includes a direct bus service between Bury St Edmunds and Peterborough, in both directions, to speed up the journey and help people meet connections for onward journeys. Other buses will call at intermediate stations. The bus timetable can be found here.
Disruption will continue until further notice.
In fact they have withdrawn all their trains, just the 2 XC trains calling at Whittlesea, leaving travellers with the options of either a 2-hour coach journey to Bury St Edmunds or getting into Peterborough by road then paying more - for the non-stop coach to Bury St Edmunds.
In fact the service is unusable and can only do further damage to Rail UK's reputation (and our carbon footprint.}
 
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2L70

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It’s been unusable for a few weeks now, along with the Cambridge-Ipswich shuttle. 2 hourly service(if lucky) on both routes.
 

CaptainHaddock

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According to the OP's link.

"We are very sorry for the continued service disruption, which is a knock-on effect of signalling problems on our regional routes earlier this month."

Er...what? For one thing the month's only 1 day old and secondly how can signalling problems from December (which I presume is the month they mean) have an effect on what's running this week?
 

AndrewE

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According to the OP's link.

"We are very sorry for the continued service disruption, which is a knock-on effect of signalling problems on our regional routes earlier this month."

Er...what? For one thing the month's only 1 day old and secondly how can signalling problems from December (which I presume is the month they mean) have an effect on what's running this week?
I wondered whether they meant "We have discovered that our new trains mess up the signalling, so we have had to withdraw them... Tough **** that there isn't anything to replace them now, as we've passed the old ones on!"
 

70014IronDuke

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A few trains seem to be running today, searching RTT for Manea.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...02/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt

Still appalling though, I agree.

I wondered whether they meant "We have discovered that our new trains mess up the signalling, so we have had to withdraw them... Tough **** that there isn't anything to replace them now, as we've passed the old ones on!"

Do they mess up the signalling? (Sorry, I haven't read about this.) Could you show which thread, assuming it's been talked about on here?
 

dk1

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Hopefully back up and running very soon once the hiccups are sorted. The much hoped for hourly service however maybe several years away.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Is this related to the level crossing / train detection issue that became apparent a little while back? Effectively the Stadler units are prone to causing wrong-side train detection failures at certain East Anglia level crossings due to the (highly non-standard) design of train detection at certain crossings in the area. I can understand withdrawing the trains if there is a risk of barriers lifting before the train has passed, although from the pax perspective it's beyond unacceptable.
 

dk1

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Is this related to the level crossing / train detection issue that became apparent a little while back? Effectively the Stadler units are prone to causing wrong-side train detection failures at certain East Anglia level crossings due to the (highly non-standard) design of train detection at certain crossings in the area. I can understand withdrawing the trains if there is a risk of barriers lifting before the train has passed, although from the pax perspective it's beyond unacceptable.
It was proved the fault was not connected to Stadler units. Infact all trains where disappearing on the Sheringham line where some signalling mods are taking place.

The Peterborough service still has ASDO issues across the March line and cannot call at Manea with 755s due to blocking the level crossing. It's a route that has other options albeit inconvenient ones.
 

Sunset route

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Also reported (I believe in modern railways magazine) that one disappeared from all the track circuits from Trowse swing Bridge all the way into Norwich station a couple of weeks after the AHB incident.
 

Alan47575

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Evening all. I live on the Ely to March line and the service has been fairly poor for a few weeks now. Its not been abandoned at all and for the majority of days we have seen some trains run but not had a full service since we'll before Christmas. To the poster who mentioned the 755s blocking the crossing I can't see why this would be a problem when The 3 car cross country 170s do this everyday ( the 620 to Birmingham is always a 3 car as i see it on my way to work), and the former greater anglia 3 car 170s used to also do this when diagrammed on this line.
 

dk1

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Evening all. I live on the Ely to March line and the service has been fairly poor for a few weeks now. Its not been abandoned at all and for the majority of days we have seen some trains run but not had a full service since we'll before Christmas. To the poster who mentioned the 755s blocking the crossing I can't see why this would be a problem when The 3 car cross country 170s do this everyday ( the 620 to Birmingham is always a 3 car as i see it on my way to work), and the former greater anglia 3 car 170s used to also do this when diagrammed on this line.
Network Rail will not permit it with new stock. Haddiscoe is a prime example.
 

paul1609

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Network Rail will not permit it with new stock. Haddiscoe is a prime example.
Id imagine it's to do with safety rather than Network Rail. 170s (assuming they are the same as 171) are manual deselect by the Guard.
On the East Coastway one of the stations is only 3 coaches long. A 4 car 377 stops with the driver at the end of the platform in the Hastings Direction and the front 3 coaches open. In the opposite direction the driver overshoots the platform so the train is clear of the crossing and the rear 3 coaches open
 

dk1

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Id imagine it's to do with safety rather than Network Rail. 170s (assuming they are the same as 171) are manual deselect by the Guard.
On the East Coastway one of the stations is only 3 coaches long. A 4 car 377 stops with the driver at the end of the platform in the Hastings Direction and the front 3 coaches open. In the opposite direction the driver overshoots the platform so the train is clear of the crossing and the rear 3 coaches open
No nothing to do with that. 755s have ASDO. Network Rail will not permit new train fleets to obstruct level crossings.
 

Stampy

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When I was trying to get back to Peterborough from Colchester back in August, the plan was to go Colchester-Ipswich-Peterborough

Ended up going back via LONDON as the (I think) 1836 and the 2001 trains were BOTH cancelled.

Spent nearly 2 hours stuck at Ipswich - and a very late arrival back into PBO....
 

Failed Unit

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No nothing to do with that. 755s have ASDO. Network Rail will not permit new train fleets to obstruct level crossings.
Is that a new thing? EMR obstruct the level crossings at a few stations in Lincolnshire such as Swiderby if the train is 3 coaches (or longer). The driver needs to use the local door to let passengers out. I assume if EMR had new stock we would have the same issue.
 

dk1

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Is that a new thing? EMR obstruct the level crossings at a few stations in Lincolnshire such as Swiderby if the train is 3 coaches (or longer). The driver needs to use the local door to let passengers out. I assume if EMR had new stock we would have the same issue.
Probably. The rules between older & newer stock are huge. Grandfather rights for the legacy fleets but once you start replacing them...
 

Hophead

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Probably. The rules between older & newer stock are huge. Grandfather rights for the legacy fleets but once you start replacing them...

Thameslink 700s block the crossing at Littlehaven twice an hour. Either this rule post-dates their introduction, or dispensations can be granted, it seems.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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What is the reason for not permitting trains to obstruct level crossings? Surely the barriers are held down while the track circuit berth is occupied so there is no risk of them lifting before the train has gone.
 

Starmill

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The connections for the buses look slightly tight.

For example, a coach is booked to depart Peterborough at the same time as the train at 1550. It really can't depart any earlier than this because connecting passengers might be coming in at 1539 on the service from Horsham, 1538 on the service from Liverpool Lime Street and 1528 on the service from York. So far, so good. But this is booked into Bury St Edmunds at 1720, which offers only 6 minutes to catch the Cambridge to Ipswich train.

It's nearly 60 miles by road and without traffic a coach would be looking at 80 - 90 minutes or so. If there is any congestion causing more than around 10 minutes delay anywhere en route, the connection would probably be missed, unless the train that had come from Cambridge was itself late running.

Unless Greater Anglia have a stand-by bus at Bury St Edmunds, people would be having to wait for a further hour for the next Ipswich service.
 

306024

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Caught the 13.50 non-stop bus from Peterborough to Bury St Edmunds after Christmas, hoping to see the recent A14 works around Huntingdon. However before we even set off the driver announced there would be a driver swap on the outskirts of Ely, so that plan didn’t work.

We were then taken on a delightful tour of the fens along some obscure roads, including the Chatteris by-pass (arguably the best way to see Chatteris). Duly swapped drivers at a service station outside Ely, and rolled into Bury bang on 15.20, connection made.

It left me wondering what route the non stop buses usually go, and whether avoiding the A1 / A14 was the plan anyway, even without driver swaps.
 

Class 170101

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I take it the ASDO doesn't work in reverse then with front of the train off and rear of the train on the pl;atform (westbound) to avoid fouling the crossing.
 

Starmill

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I take it the ASDO doesn't work in reverse then with front of the train off and rear of the train on the pl;atform (westbound) to avoid fouling the crossing.
I think this is technically possible at some locations but is rarely permitted. The location of the signal or the need for the driver to be able to access the platform might cause practical problems too.
 

GB

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It was proved the fault was not connected to Stadler units. Infact all trains where disappearing on the Sheringham line where some signalling mods are taking place.

The Peterborough service still has ASDO issues across the March line and cannot call at Manea with 755s due to blocking the level crossing. It's a route that has other options albeit inconvenient ones.

The issues on the Sheringham line shouldn't affect the Peterborough line as I am pretty sure the AHBs on that line are standard. Its wearing very thin GA continually blaming signalling for their poor service on P'b line when all other operators are working just fine.
 

apinnard

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There arent very many drivers in that neck of the woods passed for 755s yet. At last check, you could count the number on one hand. I'm sure that is being rectified as best they can though.
 

Ianno87

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What is the reason for not permitting trains to obstruct level crossings? Surely the barriers are held down while the track circuit berth is occupied so there is no risk of them lifting before the train has gone.

For starters, it encourages abuse by people trying to weave/jump the barriers as they close to save having to wait at them for an extended period of time whilst the train is stopped.
 

Southern Dvr

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Meanwhile of course Cross Country and East Midlands Railway just plough through Manea & Whittlesea as per usual. Once upon a time on a joined up railway far far away special stop orders may have been issued to cover for the cancelled trains.
 

Nym

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Is it just me that finds it hard to believe the signalling system is in fact at fault, when other DMUs pass through the area without incident, or someone is using their PR "Skills" to blame someone else, rather than their incredibly non-standard new fleet?

Perhaps one needs to look at why a Class 156 or 170 operates these AHBs just fine, and the new Stadler units, far from trouble free, do not.

Not that one is defending NR's design decisions on level crossings, but the simplest solution is not usually the correct one for inter-operability issues like this?
 

dk1

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Meanwhile of course Cross Country and East Midlands Railway just plough through Manea & Whittlesea as per usual. Once upon a time on a joined up railway far far away special stop orders may have been issued to cover for the cancelled trains.
That still happens regularly. For example EMR (& EMT before them) will allow two SSOs if a Norwich-Cambridge service is caped. These are usually Wymondham then Attleborough or Brandon. Some where issued in the first place on the Ipswich-Peterborough route but as its ongoing and the RR bus timetable introduced, these have stopped.
 
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