Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Wivenswold, 9 Mar 2017.

  1. superalbs

    superalbs Member

    Messages:
    794
    Joined:
    3 Jul 2014
    Location:
    Exeter
    An Aventra would be quite the task! :P

    Not one of my models, it's from here: https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/newtrains/360tour

    You can see all three designs, and they look quite classy. :)
     
  2. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Member

    Messages:
    563
    Joined:
    24 Jul 2012
    Very nice indeed, a huge improvement even over the Renatus 321s.
     
  3. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

    Messages:
    1,578
    Joined:
    2 Apr 2009
    Location:
    East Anglia
    That is different from the layout I have previously seen.

    Have they reduced the number of seats to allow for that or have they crammed in an extra row in elsewhere to compensate for the row that has been lost there?
     
  4. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

    Messages:
    1,578
    Joined:
    2 Apr 2009
    Location:
    East Anglia
    I will presume there will be some changes at least to the FLIRT because of the serious design flaw that was previously discussed in the thread with the PIS system that are facing each other on the inside vestibule walls rather than facing the two seating areas.
     
  5. delticdave

    delticdave Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    14 Apr 2017
    If you want to get from Norwich to Stratford but the IC doesn't stop there, just change trains at Liv. St, it's only 7/8 minutes back to Stratford......
     
  6. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    21,788
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    Much as it's high density, I REALLY hope that interior scheme is used for the wmtrains units. It's seriously classy.
     
  7. Alfie1014

    Alfie1014 Member

    Messages:
    356
    Joined:
    27 Jun 2012
    Location:
    Essex
    No I think it’s the same, the seating plans circulated show a single longitudinal seat behind the cab.

    All the hints suggest there will be no First Class which combined with the obligation in the SouthEastern franchise prospectus that First Class is to be removed within 18 months after franchise commencement, just reinforces the view that for other than long distances a single class will be the norm. Which I fond somewhat ironic as it’s being imposed by a allegedly free market espousing Government!

    I’m not sure about carpeting throughout though, it will need to be kept clean to avoid looking grubby very quickly.
     
  8. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Member

    Messages:
    563
    Joined:
    24 Jul 2012
    It will be relatively easier to keep clean as there are gaps under the seats (in theory), but one would hope they will come with a bespoke carpet cleaning machine otherwise they're going to get pretty pongy very soon.
     
  9. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,181
    Joined:
    13 May 2008
    Hints? I was at Bombardier at the invitation of Greater Anglia, with the heads of the GA new fleet team, who in no uncertain words said that there is no first class, just a couple of weeks ago. It's in the franchise agreement.
     
  10. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

    Messages:
    1,578
    Joined:
    2 Apr 2009
    Location:
    East Anglia
    Bit odd about the table area then isn't it?
     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    21,788
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    It is, though there are other examples of this - the GWR 166s have a small area of 4+table at the end of the middle coach which isn't 1st (that's at the ends).
     
  12. superalbs

    superalbs Member

    Messages:
    794
    Joined:
    3 Jul 2014
    Location:
    Exeter
    But was formerly first.
     
  13. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    21,788
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    Was it? When was it changed? I guess the vehicle-end 1st is a retrofit, then?
     
  14. superalbs

    superalbs Member

    Messages:
    794
    Joined:
    3 Jul 2014
    Location:
    Exeter
    Oh the middle coach, sorry misread that.

    Can't say I've ever noticed the area with tables, is it still in place?
     
  15. dp21

    dp21 Member

    Messages:
    120
    Joined:
    10 May 2017
    It may well be possible that the amount of space which is available it wouldn't be possible to fit any more than 4 seats on each side so they thought may as well put a table in?

    Just an idea rather than it being considered for any 1st class which, as has been described above and I have had confirmed to me also, will not be coming to the 720s.
     
  16. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Member

    Messages:
    563
    Joined:
    24 Jul 2012
    I appreciate that standard only was in the franchise agreement and the publicity and the final outcome too. A few highly reliable sources were suggesting that there was some further thought about it prior to the design lock-down. I know of a few commuters who raised it in the consultation process so it was only natural that it should have been discussed further.
     
  17. lordbusiness

    lordbusiness Member

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    17 Dec 2014
    Agree about the 0830 NRW- LST. Horrible train avoid whenever possible. I call it the Saga express with many taking advantage of Senior Railcards. Some of the off peak LST- NRW (1530/1600/1630) are getting just as bad.
    Truth is the GEML is always going to struggle with capacity with the rate of exodus from London. We may enjoy a few years of slightly less crowding but the way houses are going up in COL, CHM and other towns along the route (including NRW) it won't last long.
     
  18. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

    Messages:
    1,578
    Joined:
    2 Apr 2009
    Location:
    East Anglia
    I have never been on that train in the week, only at weekends
     
  19. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

    Messages:
    1,572
    Joined:
    18 Jul 2013
    Location:
    Brentwood, Essex
    I had in my diary that there was supposed to be a demo at Liverpool Street on the 8th, but I didn't see any sign of it passing through?
     
  20. Alfie1014

    Alfie1014 Member

    Messages:
    356
    Joined:
    27 Jun 2012
    Location:
    Essex
    I agree that this boat seems to have sailed but I still find it an illogical commercial decision, although acknowledge that the strings are being pulled by the DfT. It seems somewhat bizarre to penalise some your most valuable customers, (who pay many thousands of pounds a year for season tickets) and offer them the only one option of a seat in trains that will mostly be 2+3 seating which at many on the stations closer to London such as Chelmsford, Ingatestone, Shenfield. The choice for these in morning peak will probably be a middle seat, tip up seat or standing in the vestibule, a bit of come down from a more spacious seat in First even though they are not 'policed' as well as they could be. A missed opportunity I think, especially if revenue continues to soften, every pound will count.

    I also see that RMT have thrown their hat into the ring on the subject on SWR, though with very confused messages about on the one hand seats for toffs, (in the new all standard class Aventras!), whilst at the same time bemoaning the fact that pregnant women with baby on board badges will be deprived of an upgrade if First goes?

    All in all the issue of First Class has become horribly confused across the network, with too much meddling and interference from the centre and you know who I mean by that!
     
  21. delticdave

    delticdave Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    14 Apr 2017
    What are you on about?
    I can't use my senior railcard that early in the morning!
     
  22. 306024

    306024 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,902
    Joined:
    23 Jan 2013
    Location:
    East Anglia
    Regarding the 08.30 Norwich to Liverpool St, it’s the first off peak Norwich train, arriving in Liverpool St after 10.00. From Monday 11/12/17 The 08.48 from Ipswich no longer runs as a slow train attaching to a Colchester Town to Liverpool St service at Colchester, but simply calls Manningtree, Colchester, Stratford and Liverpool St arriving 10.10. For some strange reason for the first week of operation it still departs at 08.48, but from the following Monday 18/12/17 it departs Ipswich at 08.58, still arriving at 10.10. This is to tempt Ipswich, Manningtree and Colchester folks away from the 08.30 from Norwich.

    Anyway back on the first class debate, it would be interesting to be party to the finances behind the decision. Capacity is the reason given, which on some trains is true, but there a huge uplift in capacity overall on the GEML. In the very long term, with continuous commuter housing being built, it may be the right decision, but in the short term there will be some very upset first class passengers.

    With fewer trains with first class available at Manningtree and Colchester in particular, it will be a dilema whether to buy a first class season ticket in the first place, as the chances of getting a first class seat in the morning peak are reduced.
     
  23. eastdyke

    eastdyke Member

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    25 Jan 2010
    Location:
    East Midlands
    Is that because you generally don't rise that early?
    A Senior Railcard is valid on any service.
     
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    21,788
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    In the SE there is a time restriction.
     
  25. eastdyke

    eastdyke Member

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    25 Jan 2010
    Location:
    East Midlands
    Assuming AVENTRAs are built without 1st it will be 'interesting' to see the reaction when one turns up from Norwich vice a FLIRT <D
     
  26. 47802

    47802 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,815
    Joined:
    8 Oct 2013
    Personally I think the elimination of 1st class is long overdue and should only be retained on the primary intercity routes. Maybe there might be an argument for retaining it on the Stansted's as it would also make substituting a Stansted and Norwich flirt on each route easier, but overall I think its time 1st class went from London Commuter routes as has been the case on many regional routes for years.
     
  27. eastdyke

    eastdyke Member

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    25 Jan 2010
    Location:
    East Midlands
    Thanks, I didn't know that, lived a sheltered life up here! :oops:
     
  28. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,181
    Joined:
    13 May 2008
    There's no debate, there's no "if" etc- the only units being built with 1st class are the 10 Norwich Intercity FLIRTs- the Stansted FLIRTs will be Standard only, the rural bi-mode FLIRTs will be standard only, the entire Aventra fleet will be Standard only. The FLIRT specification is fully locked down, the Aventra more or less (the bike space configuration was the last item). The only units with a yellow stripe above the windows will be the Norwich ones. No amount of "maybes" or "they shoulds" on an internet forum is changing that!

    (Blue stripe above the wheelchair accessible section, green stripe above the bike area, if I recall correctly from the presentations. But yes, yellow above first, as it should be)
     
  29. class387

    class387 Member

    Messages:
    805
    Joined:
    9 Oct 2015
    Does the 'locked down' specification on the Flirts include the PIS?
     
  30. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

    Messages:
    1,578
    Joined:
    2 Apr 2009
    Location:
    East Anglia
    Lets hope not because if it is nobody sitting down will be able to see them in their present location which is a pretty unbelievable oversight!

    If that makes it through to production, it would make you seriously question the competence of the people in charge of the design of the trains.

    Honestly though, I reckon it was a rendering mistake rather than intentional.
     

Share This Page