Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[F Great Eastern]

First GE did a good job on those refurbs.

Was a really good refurb - I remember when some more 321s came to NXEA from other franchises (ones with yellow grab poles, can't remember where from) and started to be used on the GEML that were apparently 'refurbished' by their original TOC and honestly they weren't a patch on the FGE refurbs and looked a much older and dated run down train.

 

[samuelmorris]

Yeah you're thinking of the /4s that came from Silverlink (displaced by 350/2s) in their yellow/blue interior, they were pretty tatty, I remember that and thinking that the much-maligned grey and red replacement NX fitted was much better, even if it did mean the loss of the declassified first class section (but still with the wider seats).

 

[Wivenswold]

Just the walls, grab rails etc - I haven't seen a unit with green seats for ages. I thought that was agreed previously, didn't realise there was any confusion about it, apologies.

Edit: Just spotted there was an error in my post from last month, I meant green walls/floor etc. not green seats. Sorry if I misled anybody!

Hey no worries Samuel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Silverlink sets were quite curious, as they did a pretty comprehensive refurb on them - new panelling, re-powder-coating of grab rails etc....then didn't replace the seat covers. Never understood that. Maybe the rest went over budget so they had to cut at the last minute.

Usually a cheap refurb job is just new seat covers and nothing else!

 

[F Great Eastern]

The Silverlink sets were quite curious, as they did a pretty comprehensive refurb on them - new panelling, re-powder-coating of grab rails etc....then didn't replace the seat covers. Never understood that. Maybe the rest went over budget so they had to cut at the last minute.

I hated them throughout to be honest - I remember them looking far worse upkept, with a far lower quality finish and more tatty - I honestly think the colour scheme made them look more dated.

 

[samuelmorris]

Weren't they broadly the same as the few that stayed with LM? Like this?

(off topic warning :P )

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, it was Silverlink that did the refurb, LM never did anything except stick blanks over the Silverlink branding - they never received LM branding of any kind until very late on (when a few were repainted), and the interiors were never LM-ised.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Do I remember right that there was at least one as well with bright blue seats on the GEML? Or am I thinking of a different train with another franchise?

I remember the tiny tables being very tatty.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The tables were a Silverlink addition - as built they had small coffee cup shelves about 6" by 3". Shame the 350/2s didn't get something similar, they were quite useful while not being in the way of people getting in and out of the 3 side.

 

[class387]

On a different note, I sampled my first Renatus 321 today.

I was very impressed. The train felt bright and airy, nothing like an almost 30-year old train. The Quantum seats in them are comfortable, definitely my favourite modern seat type. A really high quality refurbishment that shows what can be done to older trains if you put the effort in. The only slight issue is the rattly Mk3 EMU doors, but it isn't a big problem.

 

[superalbs]

On a different note, I sampled my first Renatus 321 today.

I was very impressed. The train felt bright and airy, nothing like an almost 30-year old train. The Quantum seats in them are comfortable, definitely my favourite modern seat type. A really high quality refurbishment that shows what can be done to older trains if you put the effort in. The only slight issue is the rattly Mk3 EMU doors, but it isn't a big problem.

Hope I'll get one later this month. Is there any specific route they work, or are they just open to work with any old 321 diagram?

 

[class387]

Hope I'll get one later this month. Is there any specific route they work, or are they just open to work with any old 321 diagram?

I think they work in a common pool. Today I saw three - one on the Colchester Town service I was on (so I could take it to Romford), one to Braintree ten minutes later and one arriving from I think Clacton. All three were coupled to unrefurbished examples - mine was led by an FCC liveried 321/4.

 

[superalbs]

I think they work in a common pool. Today I saw three - one on the Colchester Town service I was on (so I could take it to Romford), one to Braintree ten minutes later and one arriving from I think Clacton. All three were coupled to unrefurbished examples - mine was led by an FCC liveried 321/4.

Will just have to hope then. I'm sure if I see one that's not due out for a while at any station, I can hop on and have a quick look around, even if I do not get a ride.

 

[samuelmorris]

My experience still tends to be there's more of them on mainline diagrams than on the Southend/Braintree ones, but there's a fair few about at peak time now.

 

[MatthewRead]

The Silverlink sets were quite curious, as they did a pretty comprehensive refurb on them - new panelling, re-powder-coating of grab rails etc....then didn't replace the seat covers. Never understood that. Maybe the rest went over budget so they had to cut at the last minute.

Usually a cheap refurb job is just new seat covers and nothing else!

They did get new seat covers just with the same NSE upholstery.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They did get new seat covers just with the same NSE upholstery.

I thought that was "as needed". Certainly some of them were still threadbare after refurb.

 

[Wivenswold]

No news unfortunately but I've been mulling over the next few years and have a few questions about the changes from 2019. I would be really grateful if anyone with inside knowledge can assist but also happy to speculate with the rest of us.

1. When the coach length of the Class 720s was announced there were a few concerns about whether they'll get round the Western curve of the Hythe Triangle. Is this a concern for GA?
2. Has there been any further development on the new timetable which starts to take effect from May 2019?
3. Given that 360s are earmarked for the Legacy Fleet in case the Stadler Class 745s can't replace all of the loco-hauled sets when they are withdrawn in Dec 19, will Norwich drivers be signing them as a precaution? I can't imagine GA will "wait and see".
4. Following on from that, is there any indication that some London - Norwich IC workings may move over to Class 360 earlier once all 321s are back from Wabtec and available and/or when Aventras are entering service, so that the IC sets can be withdrawn gradually or at least the 360s can gain some regular workings in case they're needed in 2020 for a while?
5. Is it likely that a Class 345 will be hired for gauging tests prior to completion of the first 720 to see if there are any obvious issues that need fixing before full-scale testing starts?

I have a curious mind.

 

[samuelmorris]

I can't really comment on most of these but I don't see much value in gauging with a 345, they're different vehicle lengths so they'd only have to do it again with the 720s later anyway...

 

[MatthewRead]

I'd rather they used 321's on the Norwich services as they are more comfortable.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I'd rather they used 321's on the Norwich services as they are more comfortable.

I don't like the 321s on busy trains - the angled nature of seats makes them uncomfortable to sit on for too long - although off peak being able to space yourself out you can get away with it somewhat.

 

[Wivenswold]

A 360 running on a 360 diagram will probably shave minutes of a stopper compared with a loco-hauled set. Not scientific by any means but I compared a stopping service against the timetable on Rail Sim with a Class 90 and then an 8 car 360. Arrived at Liverpool Street 11 mins early in the latter without pushing it too hard.

 

[Alfie1014]

Looks like there are problems with the proposed Brantham depot this has been published in the latest Rail Magazine https://www.railmagazine.com/news/n...er-anglia-s-new-maintenance-depot-at-brantham

A decision over the future of Greater Anglia’s planned Brantham depot, which is due to open in December to stable and maintain new trains, will be made in the first quarter of this year.

An internal newsletter, seen by RAIL, includes an update from Franchise and Programmes Director Mike Kean, who states: “I am conscious that there have been several rumours about the future of this site which can be damaging. I wanted to give an honest update on where we are.

“We have been working hard on it for over a year but still have issues with the landowner selling the land, delivery of the connection and achieving acceptance of how it will operate. Due to this we are looking at alternative stabling sites to accommodate the new trains as well as other locations for a wheel lathe. We are continuing to develop Brantham, but if we cannot solve the land issues we will need a plan B - this is well under way. A further review of Brantham will happen in Q1 of this year.”

On January 15, GA told RAIL: “There remain a number of issues to be resolved to ensure delivery of our new depot at Brantham. These include the preparation of the site, the link line to access the site and the fact that we have yet to agree commercial terms with the landowner involved. We are therefore looking at alternative options for the maintenance and cleaning that is due to be undertaken at Brantham, in case we need to alter our plans. We expect to be able to confirm the next steps, either with Brantham or, if necessary, a new plan within the next three months.”

GA had previously told RAIL on January 3: "“There is no change and no new developments. The project is currently still moving forward with no change to the plans, though we are still finalising the commercial agreement with the land owners. Major investment is taking place in Crown Point anyway because that’s the main base for the Stadler trains.”

 

[F Great Eastern]

Any speculation on what plan B might be?

 

[Alfie1014]

No news unfortunately but I've been mulling over the next few years and have a few questions about the changes from 2019. I would be really grateful if anyone with inside knowledge can assist but also happy to speculate with the rest of us.

1. When the coach length of the Class 720s was announced there were a few concerns about whether they'll get round the Western curve of the Hythe Triangle. Is this a concern for GA?
2. Has there been any further development on the new timetable which starts to take effect from May 2019?.

There’s quite a bit of detail in this presentation from Jonathan Denby to Suffolk Chambers of Commerce from back last April https://www.suffolkchamber.co.uk/media/44250/2017-04-04-jd-aga-to-tib.pdf including towards the end a “commitment” to consultation on the new timetable(s). Also lots of detail on the depots, including Brantham and the new trains most of which we already know about.

In respect of the 360s personally I think it’s unlikely they’ll find their way on to the Norwich’s if there is any delay to the programme of replacement I think 321s will more likely be used and/or a derogation will be requested to keep the MkIIIs in temporary service beyond 31/12/19.

 

[LAX54]

I thought I read somewhere that they were retaining a few hauled sets just in case ? Think 360's may have power issues north of Stowmarket if they run more than a 4 car ?

 

[dp21]

No news unfortunately but I've been mulling over the next few years and have a few questions about the changes from 2019. I would be really grateful if anyone with inside knowledge can assist but also happy to speculate with the rest of us.

1. When the coach length of the Class 720s was announced there were a few concerns about whether they'll get round the Western curve of the Hythe Triangle. Is this a concern for GA?
2. Has there been any further development on the new timetable which starts to take effect from May 2019?
3. Given that 360s are earmarked for the Legacy Fleet in case the Stadler Class 745s can't replace all of the loco-hauled sets when they are withdrawn in Dec 19, will Norwich drivers be signing them as a precaution? I can't imagine GA will "wait and see".
4. Following on from that, is there any indication that some London - Norwich IC workings may move over to Class 360 earlier once all 321s are back from Wabtec and available and/or when Aventras are entering service, so that the IC sets can be withdrawn gradually or at least the 360s can gain some regular workings in case they're needed in 2020 for a while?
5. Is it likely that a Class 345 will be hired for gauging tests prior to completion of the first 720 to see if there are any obvious issues that need fixing before full-scale testing starts?

I have a curious mind.

1. If this is an issue it hasn't been raised as a substantial problem or something that can't be managed so it sounds like it's in hand. I'm not involved in the 720 team but certainly there's not been any headless chickens.
2. No news internally that I've seen however the train planning team would probably know more.
3. I believe the plan is that the 379s will cover the Norwich services if needed due to the fact that they're cleared for use over the entire network whereas I don't believe the 360s are. The drivers are trained on them I believe too so shouldn't pose a problem. With regards the above post about retaining hauled sets, that's definitely not the case as they won't be able to run post-PRM deadline.
4. As above, no due to not being cleared to Norwich and if they are transferred to anything else it would be 379s but there is no appetite to transfer to anything other than the new trains unless absolutely desperate.
5. As answered by samuelmorris they'll need to do new tests as the vehicles are different lengths and the vehicle dynamics will no doubt differ too due to the different internal fit out.

Hope that helps anyway!

 

[Wivenswold]

1. If this is an issue it hasn't been raised as a substantial problem or something that can't be managed so it sounds like it's in hand. I'm not involved in the 720 team but certainly there's not been any headless chickens.
2. No news internally that I've seen however the train planning team would probably know more.
3. I believe the plan is that the 379s will cover the Norwich services if needed due to the fact that they're cleared for use over the entire network whereas I don't believe the 360s are. The drivers are trained on them I believe too so shouldn't pose a problem. With regards the above post about retaining hauled sets, that's definitely not the case as they won't be able to run post-PRM deadline.
4. As above, no due to not being cleared to Norwich and if they are transferred to anything else it would be 379s but there is no appetite to transfer to anything other than the new trains unless absolutely desperate.
5. As answered by samuelmorris they'll need to do new tests as the vehicles are different lengths and the vehicle dynamics will no doubt differ too due to the different internal fit out.

Hope that helps anyway!

Yes, that's really useful, thanks. I do like the idea of the 379s on GEML, if only for a short while.

 

[samuelmorris]

It kind of surprises me the GE drivers are trained on them given I don't think I've ever seen one this side. That would make for quite an interesting experience

 

[AY1975]

Did anyone get a chance to visit the "virtual reality" tour of the 720s at Colchester (or any other GA station) just before Christmas? See https://youtu.be/N6idcmnOpwg

If only the other train operators could also have consulted their passengers in this way before finalising their new train designs (especially the Voyagers, Pendolinos, Thameslink 700s, and IEPs/IETs)! Mind you, at least Northern did have three possible seat designs on display at some key stations on its network for public consultation.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Wasn't a much of a consultation exercise as one of a marketing exercise in my view.

They were unable to answer basic questions directly from me or other people in relation to a number of things for many many months and simply kept spewing the same PR speak and scripted answers which didn't actually answer the questions asked.

As for the Desiro City 700 and the Intercity Express units - the operators had no say in this - the interior was decided by the DFT directly with the operators having no say.