Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[Railperf]

That really isn't that long, and all those stations have cafes and kiosks that can offer much higher quality products than a trolley could.

yes, the main stations have cafe's and coffee shops. But there are moments where you are caught short not having time to buy a drink before boarding. It's like saying you don't need loos on the train because there are loos at stations. Norwegian FLIRT trains have a drinks vending machine on board. That would be a good option - maybe better than a trolley - and wouldn't require additional staff to man it!

 

[chubs]

yes, the main stations have cafe's and coffee shops. But there are moments where you are caught short not having time to buy a drink before boarding. It's like saying you don't need loos on the train because there are loos at stations. Norwegian FLIRT trains have a drinks vending machine on board. That would be a good option - maybe better than a trolley - and wouldn't require additional staff to man it!

It's really not comparable to toilets at all. You're not going to die if you go an hour without a badly made tea or coffee, but toilets are essential. Many people look back at the trolley with rose tinted specs. If it was viable they'd be doing it.

A vending machine would be even worse!

 

[Railperf]

It's really not comparable to toilets at all. You're not going to die if you go an hour without a badly made tea or coffee, but toilets are essential. Many people look back at the trolley with rose tinted specs. If it was viable they'd be doing it.

A vending machine would be even worse!

I spent an hour on a 717 to Watton in Stone that had no loos - absolutely murder!

 

[trebor79]

The East Mids does, but by the time the existing service retimed reaches Norwich the East Mids is only 5-10 minutes behind, Gives a roughly half hourly service from Ely.

That my point. Anybody travelling to Brandon, Attleborough or Wymondham from Peterborough can use the East Mids and change at Ely or Thetford. Your plan would have them kicking their heels for nearly an hour.

 

[Trainfan344]

That my point. Anybody travelling to Brandon, Attleborough or Wymondham from Peterborough can use the East Mids and change at Ely or Thetford. Your plan would have them kicking their heels for nearly an hour.

Where? The East Mids train every hour connects at Ely with the current service and at Thetford to the new service.

 

[dk1]

Don't want to add any more stops to the East Midlands services than necessary. I'm all for the odd calls for commuting into/out of Norwich but it should be remembered that it's an inter-urban route & fast connections to Peterborough are good for the regional economy. More trains would be welcome using Ely West Curve but I do understand that this would affect connections & also lose the franchise a large chunk of ticketing revenue.

 

[chubs]

Before the Anglia Cambridge service didn't Central Trains use to stop at all the stations between Norwich and Ely?

It's a lot better now that it doesn't, as said it's not really a stopping service.

 

[306024]

If you listen to what passengers say they want from a timetable, the top two are usually more frequent services and faster journey times. Try squaring that circle. Running additional stopping services come at a considerable cost, and may not be practical anyway.

Meanwhile the outsourcing of maintenance for the Mk3 fleet is having a big effect. Hardly a load 9 set left running today according to this mornings short forms.

 

[dk1]

Before the Anglia Cambridge service didn't Central Trains use to stop at all the stations between Norwich and Ely?

It's a lot better now that it doesn't, as said it's not really a stopping service.

It was roughly every other service that called Wymondham, Attleborough & Brandon until around 2005. Anglia Railways introduced the Cambridge service in 2002 calling Wymondham, Attleborough & Thetford but it was a couple of years before Brandon was added & the Central Trains services almost all then became Thetford only.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

It does seem this is an underused line but i would say its prime for electrification as an infill to cambridge to improve speeds and make it more competitive in journey times

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Also with the bi mode flirts, would a Birmingham service actually work now?

 

[Trainfan344]

You'd be surprised at how little is under the wires, it's only Norwich to Trowse Junction, Ely North Junction to Ely North Junction, Peterborough to Helpston Jn and then I think it's all unelectrified until you reach Proof House Junction

 

[Owen]

If the bottlenecks could handle it, I'd advocate for an hourly all-stations Norwich-Stansted and an hourly Norwich-Thetford-Ely-Cambridge-Whittlesford-Audley End-Stansted. A proper fast service to connect the principal towns, and a true local service.

Good idea! It's a disgrace that Norwich doesn't have a service to Stansted in this day and age.

 

[dk1]

Also with the bi mode flirts, would a Birmingham service actually work now?

What difference would bimodes make on that route now compared to 30yrs ago?

 

[dk1]

Good idea! It's a disgrace that Norwich doesn't have a service to Stansted in this day and age.

All down to lack of suitable platforms at the airport. Bimodes have changed that.

 

[dk1]

It does seem this is an underused line but i would say its prime for electrification as an infill to cambridge to improve speeds and make it more competitive in journey times

Almost the entire route east of Lakenheath was made suitable for 90mph operation with resignalling several years ago but nobody can be bothered to bring the left & right hand together

 

[eastdyke]

Also with the bi mode flirts, would a Birmingham service actually work now?

Norwich - Birmingham would be around 3hrs 20mins with a reverse at Ely - in the unlikely event that paths could be found.
That time will be matched or bettered when (if) EWR services run Norwich - Oxford even with the required changes at both Bletchley and Milton Keynes. Post HS2 I can see faster services Bletchley - Birmingham avoiding the MK change.
Going via Bletchley will be a no brainer for passengers from Cambridge so expect a shake up 'down the line' for the current Cross Country service via Ely.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

What difference would bimodes make on that route now compared to 30yrs ago?

I just see that Norwich is a bigger city now but I guess it's not going pick up anything in between that's not already covered by other routes.

 

[trebor79]

It does seem underutilised. A Norwich - Peterborough - Birmingham service via Ely West Curve would actually be very useful. If you want to get to Birmingham from anywhere east of Cambridge it's quicker to go via London at present. And quicker still to drive which is what I tend to do.

 

[dk1]

It does seem underutilised. A Norwich - Peterborough - Birmingham service via Ely West Curve would actually be very useful. If you want to get to Birmingham from anywhere east of Cambridge it's quicker to go via London at present. And quicker still to drive which is what I tend to do.

3h11 was the quickest journey ever offered by Regional Railways direct from Norwich in the days when Stamford, Oakham & Melton Mowbray where only deemed worthy of a two hourly service.

 

[trebor79]

That would be very useful indeed. Could probably be done a bit quicker now with modern stock and higher track speeds in places?
I really must get my OA startup going...

 

[Owen]

All down to lack of suitable platforms at the airport. Bimodes have changed that.

Well, we're still waiting.

 

[dk1]

Well, we're still waiting.

'We' will have to wait another 14 months. The GA EMU Cambridge shuttle currently fills the path.

 

[dk1]

That would be very useful indeed. Could probably be done a bit quicker now with modern stock and higher track speeds in places?
I really must get my OA startup going...

I don't think any track speeds are any higher on the route & certainly not in East Anglia. That was achieved with 156/8s in the late 80s/early 90s.

 

[43074]

Norwich - Birmingham would be around 3hrs 20mins with a reverse at Ely - in the unlikely event that paths can be found

To be honest XC have had ambitions to run 2tph from Birmingham to East Anglia for a while now, but that should be possible when Ely North is sorted. If the Liverpool service gets split at Nottingham I reckon diverting them from Peterborough to serve Leicester and Birmingham would be a reasonable way of increasing capacity there and still offering useful direct journeys from Norwich, serving Grantham and Nottingham only doesn't really achieve very much IMO.

 

[trebor79]

Where? The East Mids train every hour connects at Ely with the current service and at Thetford to the new service.

Ah yes, I forgot we were talking about an additional service. As you were!

 

[chubs]

I've said it before but I still honestly think the current system of Birmingham - Stansted and Norwich - Liverpool works well. Trying to mix the two up with alternating patterns just makes far more complicated for everyone including passengers.

Ely maybe tiny and a bit barren but it's a simple easy transfer.

 

[chubs]

To be honest XC have had ambitions to run 2tph from Birmingham to East Anglia for a while now, but that should be possible when Ely North is sorted.

Have they got enough stock?

 

[43074]

I've said it before but I still honestly think the current system of Birmingham - Stansted and Norwich - Liverpool works well. Trying to mix the two up with alternating patterns just makes far more complicated for everyone including passengers.

I don't think anyone is suggesting mixing the two up.

Have they got enough stock?

Not for 2tph all day, there was a proposal a few years ago worked up in quite a bit of detail which involved extending (more or less) every other Birmingham to Leicester stopping service to Cambridge which wouldn't have required any more stock but did require additional traincrew:

It was planned for December 2008 that a number of Birmingham-Leicester services would have been extended to Cambridge (0652, 0852, 1052, 1252, & 1852) but that was shelved following the 2008 financial crisis...

To be honest both Stansted and Norwich to Peterborough need more capacity, which on paper could be achieved by simply running longer trains, but we're well off topic now...

 

[Railperf]

All down to lack of suitable platforms at the airport. Bimodes have changed that.

Is it just the single platform in open air that the diesels use at Stansted?