Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

dk1

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I don't think GA will keep them on, but they be hired in to cover when the flirts are on maintenance, I just feel that they don't have enough.
But hired in from where? Who's going to keep MK3s available for spot hire & all driver/guard competency will run out if not working them on a regular basis.
 
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jayah

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Yes exactly lots of people do like them!! Including the drivers I've spoken to of which 100% of them are against the new trains!
The good old "they don't build them like they used to" comes into use here. You won't get a more solid comfy good all round train compared to the GA class 90 MK3 sets.
However that is just my opinion on this.
They look tired thanks to years of neglect and here today gone bust tomorrow owners.

Look at what Chiltern have done - there is plenty of life left in the Mk3s.

Give the people of Anglia an honest choice, but if they think the deserve brand new trains let them pay the hugely increased fares necessary to fund them.
 

Wivenswold

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They look tired thanks to years of neglect and here today gone bust tomorrow owners.

Look at what Chiltern have done - there is plenty of life left in the Mk3s.

Give the people of Anglia an honest choice, but if they think the deserve brand new trains let them pay the hugely increased fares necessary to fund them.
On the "years of neglect" issue, how are you quantifying "neglect"? Are you suggesting the good people at Crown Point have not maintained the trains well or that GA have done nothing to the Mk 3s during the somewhat nebulous time frame you mention?

I suspect Chiltern would prefer to have new coaching stock. The Mk3 coaches were designed 45 years ago, they can't and won't go on forever. The older carriages and rolling stock become the less cost-effective they are, even if they can be kept in top condition, parts will become more expensive to replace, structural work will be needed to prolong the assets' lives, old stock are usually less energy-efficient and modifications for disability and Health & Safety laws all add up to the cost of running stock beyond its intended life-span.

It's not about giving people a choice, the rail operator has bid on the basis of complete fleet renewal, the franchise bid is costed on that basis and GA felt it was achievable. Regulated fares will not be increased to pay for these new trains, they're leased and in all probability cost less over the course of the franchise than keeping the old stock running. Now, we all know that GA have run into problems but the long term outcome will be a more efficient, reliable, safer, inclusive, faster service. I think the people of Britain deserve that, not just East Anglians.
 

trebor79

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Agree that the new trains will result in a much better experience for passengers well into the future.
I also tend to think that one or two rakes of Mk3 will be retained (refurbished with power doors etc), or that that "something else" will run alongside the 745s on the Norwich services. I just don't see how 10 units can reliably cover all of the diagrams.
The Mk3s no doubt could have been heavily rebuilt and retained. This wasn't what was in the franchise bid so it isn't what's happening. No point going over and over it. If people think they are worth something, do an Adrian Shooter and buy them all to be refurbished into a super train!
 

MrPIC

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And surely if any legacy stock was to be retained it wouldn't be coaches and locos it would be renatus 321/360 or 379? The stock that's already compliant?
 

Bringback309s

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The number of DMU based carriages is going to more than double as well over 100 flirt carriages replace 55 DMU vehicles. This will give them some room for substitutions?
 

trebor79

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The number of DMU based carriages is going to more than double as well over 100 flirt carriages replace 55 DMU vehicles. This will give them some room for substitutions?
Maybe not. The FLIRTs are fixed 3 or 4 coach units, replacing 1, 2 and 3 coach units. Number of coaches will increase, I'm not sure that translates into a lot of spare units.
 

47421

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Maybe not. The FLIRTs are fixed 3 or 4 coach units, replacing 1, 2 and 3 coach units. Number of coaches will increase, I'm not sure that translates into a lot of spare units.
Well I think the proposed hourly Ipswich to Peterborough originally due May 2020 has been abandoned UFN as too many level crossings to accommodate the increase in service or something, so that is 2 full diagrams no longer needed
 

trebor79

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Only in Britain would we say it's too dangerous to run more trains over a few rural level crossings that already have trains running over them!
 

47421

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If they have ordered enough Aventras!
(Given the suspicion by many that they haven't ordered enough stock overall)
Depends on whether proposed timetable changes ever come to pass I suppose. Various enhancements due May 19 not happening (Norwich Camb extended to Stansted Airport all day, extra TPH off peak Liv St to Hertford East and Southend Vic, Liv St Ipswich semifast extended to Norwich all day). Recast was due May 2020, letter from GA in Modern Railways recently said recast for GEML likely to be Dec 2020, no info on West Anglia.

GA has never consulted on proposed changes nor have any draft timetables been published or leaked AFAIK. Time will tell whether they can actually deliver the frequency improvements promised. If not then fewer diagrams than anticipated when orders placed presumably
 

Bringback309s

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Maybe not. The FLIRTs are fixed 3 or 4 coach units, replacing 1, 2 and 3 coach units. Number of coaches will increase, I'm not sure that translates into a lot of spare units.
Goes from around 26 to 38 units and with the new ones being electric too should give them extra flexibility. How much difference will there be between 745's and 755's from a crew point of view?
 

Dave1987

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Only in Britain would we say it's too dangerous to run more trains over a few rural level crossings that already have trains running over them!
You clearly don't actually understand what you are talking about here. It's not about "a few rural level crossings", It's about the single line at Soham, and the fact that some pretty heavily used roads that already suffer pretty big tailbacks because the barriers are down a lot per hour would be down even longer.
 

trebor79

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The most major level crossing in that area is the B1102 Fordham to Burwell Road. The rest are lanes serving a few houses.
All of the main routes are bridged.
 

eastdyke

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The most major level crossing in that area is the B1102 Fordham to Burwell Road. The rest are lanes serving a few houses.
All of the main routes are bridged.
All level crossings are risk assessed, and for Ipswich - Peterborough that is a lot of crossings.
That will not only include crossings on the PH (Public Highway) but also a multitude of UWC (User Worked Crossings). The risks are complex.
Included in the PH crossings are the 3 at Queen Adelaide (aka Ely North Junction) where tailbacks from one crossing can interact with another. To run more trains, and to mitigate the additional risk, full barrier crossings are needed but installing them would mean the associated downtime exceeding that reasonable for a well used road.
Cambridgeshire County Council (Highways) in conjunction with Network Rail are investigating a solution that would involve road construction (a by-pass if you like), to enable 1 or more of the crossings to be closed.
And then someone has to come up with the money (possibly around £100k just for Queen Adelaide).
There is at least one thread on the Queen Adelaide topic on the forum, I will look later.
Edit to add: Comes up as
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ely-north-junction-upgrade-proposals.68376/
 
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Dave1987

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The most major level crossing in that area is the B1102 Fordham to Burwell Road. The rest are lanes serving a few houses.
All of the main routes are bridged.
Like I said you clearly do not know the route very well. There are some pretty significant tail backs that occur now on many of the crossings. Not to mention the fact that the Soham single line is pretty much in constant use at the moment with freight always queuing to use it.
 

F Great Eastern

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Latest marketing campaign for Greater Anglia states that they are
"Changing every train over the next two years" as seen both online and offline today.

Let the talk of delays to 2021 and rumour mill of second hand stock coming in commence!
 

dk1

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Can anyone explain why there would be a delay to the new stock coming on board? Training?
The Bombardier issues are well documented. With Stadler it's more to do with them being their first proper UK new train introduction. Various things need to be overcome. I have always been of the opinion that TOCs are far too excitable about launching the new & need to take a step back. Stop promising the public & the media totally undeliverable dates for introduction. Their staff in the know can see it all about to fall apart. What is so wrong with a quiet low key launch where nobody ends up feeling pressured or with egg on their face?
 

hwl

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The Bombardier issues are well documented. With Stadler it's more to do with them being their first proper UK new train introduction. Various things need to be overcome. I have always been of the opinion that TOCs are far too excitable about launching the new & need to take a step back. Stop promising the public & the media totally undeliverable dates for introduction. Their staff in the know can see it all about to fall apart. What is so wrong with a quiet low key launch where nobody ends up feeling pressured or with egg on their face?
That wins the comment of the months award!
 

Meerkat

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Stop promising the public & the media totally undeliverable dates for introduction. Their staff in the know can see it all about to fall apart. What is so wrong with a quiet low key launch where nobody ends up feeling pressured or with egg on their face?
But how many of the general public actually note and remember the dates? They will eventually ponder that ‘coming soon’ has been going on for years but I don’t reckon there is much ‘egg on face’
 

dk1

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But how many of the general public actually note and remember the dates? They will eventually ponder that ‘coming soon’ has been going on for years but I don’t reckon there is much ‘egg on face’
Oh I think there is. Social media is especially unforgiving & the regular more vocally tweeting commuters remember everything promised to the day. The local press in this neck of the woods are however Ni90 obsessed so hopefully won't notice they are operated by LHCS.
 

43096

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The Bombardier issues are well documented. With Stadler it's more to do with them being their first proper UK new train introduction. Various things need to be overcome. I have always been of the opinion that TOCs are far too excitable about launching the new & need to take a step back. Stop promising the public & the media totally undeliverable dates for introduction. Their staff in the know can see it all about to fall apart. What is so wrong with a quiet low key launch where nobody ends up feeling pressured or with egg on their face?
It goes back to the franchise bidding system and DfT’s need to shout about new trains when they announce a new franchise. That in turn goes back to the winning bid which will have delivery dates in it pushed to the limit as the sooner they are in service the better from the point of promises in the bid.
 

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