Greater Manchester Combined Authority: Latest transport strategy draft publication

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Jorge Da Silva, 6 Jan 2019.

  1. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    It may never change but we have to hope it does, as delivery of a sensible integrated transport network is virtually impossible otherwise. The opinion in US transport circles, where it's actually happening now, is that shared taxis damage public transport and create more congestion despite promising the opposite.
     
  2. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Shared taxis (matatus, song thaews or whatever you call them) are a lesson Asian and African countries already learnt - Malaysia banned them some time ago. Even with an app they are basically the same thing. They might work in low-density cities like MK, but when you see the disruption the present non-shared taxis cause by blocking the road to collect/disgorge one passenger, can you imagine what kind of a mess London would be if you got rid of the buses and had shared Ubers instead?
     
  3. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    DRT already covers much of GM and has replaced tendered buses in many areas. But is still not particularly efficient or cheap because of the need to book through a traditional call centre. With modern and future technology and with mass usage, near on demand shared taxis at low cost could be available without causing much unnecessary mileage if efficient routes can be calculated by computer in real time. We would still have trams and heavy rail on major corridors and shared taxis could be encouraged to connect into them rather than compete with them. Infrequent local bus services in suburban towns are pointless and should probably be replaced by shared taxis today, especially in the evening.
     
  4. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    DRT does work for areas of low demand for non-car users or specialist needs like community transport, but it's not areas of low demand where Uber etc are focused - they are interested in mass demand competing with other modes which really doesn't work.
     
  5. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    This is one of many US-focused blogs that debunk the idea that shared taxis and similar can sensibly replace conventional public transport.
    https://humantransit.org/2018/02/microtransit-what-i-think-we-know.html
    On the economics of ride-hailing: https://www.londonreconnections.com/2017/understanding-uber-not-app/
     
  6. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    What percentage of local bus services that are infrequent is the average in comparison to the total number of operated bus services that are deemed to be regular bus services in those suburban towns you refer to?

    Have you any thoughts on rural area infrequent bus service provision?
     
  7. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    Urban services running hourly or worse, especially in the evening are very unattractive due to their low frequency and consequently carry very few passengers.

    Obviously rural buses services hardly exist and almost never run in the evening or Sunday. Bus modal split may well be 1% or lower in rural areas. DRT and in the future autonomous transport is the clear solution here.
     
  8. Meerkat

    Meerkat Member

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    Rural roads are one of the reasons I really can’t see autonomous cars ever really working.....
    Not unless someone pays for kerbs on them all and teaches cars to avoid potholes
     
  9. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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  10. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    Urban roads can have potholes too.
     
  11. Meerkat

    Meerkat Member

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    Fair point but rural roads seem to have more frightening ones due to the lack of kerbs meaning the edges can really collapse
     
  12. 317 forever

    317 forever Member

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    What makes bus usage feel low, even when we see plenty of buses such as in parts of Manchester, is the awareness that half of bus journeys in England are in London.
     
  13. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    I'm absolutely not discounting buses - I'm saying they are a vital part of the network. Cycling has its place and should be encouraged, but it's never going to be for everyone so it doesn't substitute for a comprehensive public transport network.
     
  14. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    In some towns in mainland Europe, cycling achieves modal shares that public transport can only hope to get in only the very biggest cities. For connection into tram lines in south Manchester where it is flat and distances to the tram stop are often short, cycling should be ideal. It can be done without regulatory change, so there is no need for wishful thinking that bus franchising will happen.
     
  15. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    For cycling to be widespread in areas such as south Manchester there would have to be an enormous spend on a comprehensive network of protected cycle tracks, which would take up significant roadspace so while it might not require regulatory change it would require political willpower. However there are many people who wouldn't use it, such as the infirm, those visiting without cycles and those with heavy luggage or small children. And what may be OK for south Manchester may not work so well in the hills to the north and east.

    I'm not saying that cycling shouldn't be part of the strategy but it's not a reason to neglect buses.
     
  16. Mogster

    Mogster Member

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    Do those cities have Manchester’s weather though?

    Cycling in the dry is attractive. Arriving at work muddy, soaked and needing a shower and change of clothing isn’t.
     
  17. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    That's why e-bikes are such a boon, making hills irrelevant.
     
  18. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    The main cycling countries, Netherlands and Denmark, have similar climates to the UK. Rainier if anything. Whereas hot and dry countries are not noted for cycling.
     
  19. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    They also haven't abandoned bus services, as you appear to be suggesting.
     
  20. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    But, certainly in the case of the Netherlands, usage is low even by British standards, because most of the kinds of trips made by bus in other countries are made by bike. But it is still considered important to provide a comprehensive bus system, so that requires a lot of subsidy. If such a switch happened in the UK, it would make most if not all commercial services unviable, and there would be little appetite for subsidising replacements.
     
  21. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    There is a totally different cycling mindset in this country to the oft-quoted Netherlands scenario. Buses in all their various guises from those horse-drawn ones onwards have been long been imbued in the British travelling public's mindset.
     
  22. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    Funny how Britain is not prepared to pay for buses if it is indeed part of the culture
     
  23. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Is that "Britain" the Treasury with the hands on the purse-strings and nothing to do with the transport operators? Culture does never feature in the mind-set of those in the Treasury, as well you know.
     
    Last edited: 11 Feb 2019
  24. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    Neither the government nor operators are prepared to pay for it.
     

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