Greenford branch

[Bletchleyite]

4 minute connection from Electrostar to Greenford branch...that was a bit of a rush!

Is this the long term plan? If so ridership will drop further I reckon, as it's a long wait for a missed connection. I can see it not surviving in that case.

 

[JonathanH]

That isn't the only connection as Heathrow Connect stops at West Ealing too. The fact that a two car train is more than sufficient shows what the demand is and, given a connection is possible at both ends of the line, people also travel via Greenford.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, did occur to me on the way back more people might use it to reach the Central Line.

 

[Mag_seven]

4 minute connection from Electrostar to Greenford branch...that was a bit of a rush!

Is this the long term plan? If so ridership will drop further I reckon, as it's a long wait for a missed connection. I can see it not surviving in that case.

Agreed its a rotten connection given you have to go up and over (even worse if you happen to be at the front of an 8 car set). Surprised there are no announcements advising passengers connecting to the Greenford service to travel in whatever coach is nearest the foot of the stairs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed its a rotten connection given you have to go up and over (even worse if you happen to be at the front of an 8 car set). Surprised there are no announcements advising passengers connecting to the Greenford service to travel in whatever coach is nearest the foot of the stairs.

Coach 6 (7 and 8 are SDOed out at present). It'll be 8 once the platform extensions enter use.

I was near the front and had to run. Had I walked I'd have missed it, even more so if I was an infrequent user who didn't know the platform layout or understand the logic of where it might be.

(This is why I think the minimum connection at any station that isn't certain to be cross-platform or same-platform should be 10 rather than 5 minutes - I know this was 4, but really UK operations are not precise enough time-wise for even 5 to be anything other than stressful in most cases - which would mean needing the ability to be more granular, as 4-5 minutes in the other direction would be just fine).

 

[Antman]

I read somewhere that 4tph on the Greenford branch is a possibility when Crossrail opens.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It could do with some infrastructure work to up the speed a bit. Like the GOBLIN and WLL it's grindingly slow.

 

[Mag_seven]

It could do with some infrastructure work to up the speed a bit. Like the GOBLIN and WLL it's grindingly slow.

Years ago there were problems with the embankment at South Greenford which saw speed restrictions imposed and one of the platforms there having to be reconstructed. Don't know whether the slow speed mentioned is a legacy of that?

 

[SWT_USER]

I read somewhere that 4tph on the Greenford branch is a possibility when Crossrail opens.

More likely to be reduced to hourly and then further reduced in the long run - unless they can make it a useful service by perhaps extending through to High Wycombe. It has been spoken about before but I've no idea if there are paths etc for that to happen.

Currently a very un-user friendly service. Always the first to be cancelled and terrible connections for half the day in the counter peak direction coupled with GWR's total inability to run their trains on time in the peak means frequent missed connections and half hour waits at West Ealing. I can only see passenger numbers decreasing on this line from their already low base

 

[gordonthemoron]

Doesn't the Greenford shuttle terminate in the central bay platform? How could it proceed to High Wycomber?

 

[causton]

Doesn't the Greenford shuttle terminate in the central bay platform? How could it proceed to High Wycomber?

By avoiding Greenford, unfortunately!

I could see it potentially working if one an hour went to Greenford and the other one half an hour later went South Greenford - South Ruislip - West Ruislip then to Gerrards Cross or High Wycombe from there.

 

[NSEFAN]

By avoiding Greenford, unfortunately!

I could see it potentially working if one an hour went to Greenford and the other one half an hour later went South Greenford - South Ruislip - West Ruislip then to Gerrards Cross or High Wycombe from there.

You could always build a through platform on the line towards South Ruislip, assuming someone wants to pay for this.

 

[SWT_USER]

You could always build a through platform on the line towards South Ruislip, assuming someone wants to pay for this.

Indeed! Can't see that ever happening really. If anything were to happen I guess it would skip Greenford and call at one of the Ruislips. Any passengers for Greenford could use the Central line and connect with perhaps first and last trains of the day serving Greenford as a box ticking exercise.

As I said above I don't know how realistic any of this is, but it is difficult to see a future for the line in its current state.

 

[swt_passenger]

More likely that any new service will be High Wycombe (or somewhere similar) directly to Old Oak Common, with a new terminating platform for 'Chiltern', hence ignoring the Greenford branch. That seems to be the preferred option in recent studies.

 

[A0wen]

Doesn't the Greenford shuttle terminate in the central bay platform? How could it proceed to High Wycomber?

More importantly, doesn't the NNML which would provide the link from Greenford to South Ruislip disappear as part of HS2?

 

[IanXC]

Always the first to be cancelled and terrible connections for half the day in the counter peak direction coupled with GWR's total inability to run their trains on time in the peak means frequent missed connections and half hour waits at West Ealing. I can only see passenger numbers decreasing on this line from their already low base

I'm not sure this is too much of an issue, Crossrail will give 4 tph at West Drayton so maximum wait will surely be 15 minutes?

 

[hassaanhc]

It could do with some infrastructure work to up the speed a bit. Like the GOBLIN and WLL it's grindingly slow.

Increasing the speed won't make these Class 165 DMUs accelerate any faster! To me they always feel slower than their actual speed, and this happens on pretty much every section (the gear change is at 60mph but feels slower :P ). And now that Class 387 EMUs share most of the route east of Reading and can be compared against, the DMUs really get left behind. Indeed, in January there are services that gain 2 stops between Paddington and Reading yet get there at the same time!

 

[swt_passenger]

More importantly, doesn't the NNML which would provide the link from Greenford to South Ruislip disappear as part of HS2?

Not for the last few years. There was an HS2 redesign to keep it available. That's why NR can still propose additional services into a new Chiltern platform at OOC.
Page 75 of the West Midlands and Chilterns route study mentions the proposal:
https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-co...-Midlands-and-Chilterns-Route-Study-Final.pdf

 

[pdeaves]

I'm not sure this is too much of an issue, Crossrail will give 4 tph at West Drayton so maximum wait will surely be 15 minutes?

Only towards London. Away from London, it could be up to 1/2 if you happen to be on the 'wrong' train in the hour.

 

[Antman]

More likely to be reduced to hourly and then further reduced in the long run - unless they can make it a useful service by perhaps extending through to High Wycombe. It has been spoken about before but I've no idea if there are paths etc for that to happen.

Currently a very un-user friendly service. Always the first to be cancelled and terrible connections for half the day in the counter peak direction coupled with GWR's total inability to run their trains on time in the peak means frequent missed connections and half hour waits at West Ealing. I can only see passenger numbers decreasing on this line from their already low base

I don't see it being reduced to hourly, trains would be sat at Greenford or West Ealing for a long time.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I can’t remember the source so don’t kill me for that but I heard they planned to increase frequency to 4tph!!!

 

[Antman]

I can’t remember the source so don’t kill me for that but I heard they planned to increase frequency to 4tph!!!

That's what I've heard too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That’s interesting, where did you hear it from then?

 

[JonathanH]

Running time is 12 minutes so just practical for one unit to provide a half hourly service at the moment. Increasing the service to 4tph requires an extra unit. So, a matter of whether extra custom is enough to pay for the lease cost on an extra unit and it isn't needed elsewhere.

 

[ijmad]

If it's not going to High Wycombe, the line should be handed over to London Overground IMO.
TfL/LO would also likely run 4tph because this is their minimum 'turn up and go' frequency.
Put it on the tube map when Crossrail is up and running, I bet more people would use it then - Greenford to Bond Street may well be faster!
They'll even have a bunch of spare two-car diesel trains shortly thanks to GOBLIN electrification!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yeah but I think a TOC’s network should be joined up. All other ToCs are - but LO have the 162/378 services stranded from the Lea Valley Lines with no proper connection (ie: At the same station) and they are both stranded from the Romford to Upminster line with no connection.

 

[ScotGG]

What will help this line, and possibly be a factor in it going 4tph, is the massive housebuilding plan by a couple of stations. Anyone who has been along it recently may have noticed the boarded up areas and vacant buildings to the west of the line.

It'll see thousands of people 2 minutes walk from stations.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Shame that Crossrail want to make passengers on that line make 2 changes to get to Heathrow....

 

[NSEFAN]

Yeah but I think a TOC’s network should be joined up. All other ToCs are - but LO have the 162/378 services stranded from the Lea Valley Lines with no proper connection (ie: At the same station) and they are both stranded from the Romford to Upminster line with no connection.

Surely it doesn't matter who runs them, but how they're run? If anything, the London Overground branding would be more appropriate than GWR, given the former is associated with service improvements.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't see it being reduced to hourly, trains would be sat at Greenford or West Ealing for a long time.

True, the basic single unit service is what you get if they cut to the bone, and here that's half hourly. There's nowhere else the unit can go assuming it isn't Parly-ed.