Greenwich - Eynsford via Sevenoaks

[DynamicSpirit]

Is going via Sevenoaks really a permitted route for this journey?

I'm looking up Greenwich to Eynsford on the National Rail journey planner, and it's showing the quickest journeys as being changing at London Bridge and Sevenoaks - for the same price as via Blackfriars, using an off peak day return 'any permitted' ticket. I'm a bit surprised because via Sevenoaks seems a lot more miles. Can anyone confirm?

 

[JB_B]

Is going via Sevenoaks really a permitted route for this journey?

I'm looking up Greenwich to Eynsford on the National Rail journey planner, and it's showing the quickest journeys as being changing at London Bridge and Sevenoaks - for the same price as via Blackfriars, using an off peak day return 'any permitted' ticket. I'm a bit surprised because via Sevenoaks seems a lot more miles. Can anyone confirm?

View attachment 65207

I can't see why that would be valid. (I can confirm that NRE are offering this route on one ticket) Were you able to click through and purchase a ticket with this routeing?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I can't see why that would be valid. (I can confirm that NRE are offering this route on one ticket) Were you able to click through and purchase a ticket with this routeing?

Yes, I just checked, and I really can click through to buy the ticket online, with the journey details via Sevenoaks still showing on the screen as I start the ticket buying process.

Maybe it's a case of, if I actually buy the ticket, I should do it online and print out the itinerary just in case a ticket inspector questions it.

 

[30907]

Unlikely to be a problem, except perhaps if you try exiting at Sevenoaks - but a screenshot of the itinerary should suffice if you get a query.

 

[MikeWh]

Is going via Sevenoaks really a permitted route for this journey?

I'm looking up Greenwich to Eynsford on the National Rail journey planner, and it's showing the quickest journeys as being changing at London Bridge and Sevenoaks - for the same price as via Blackfriars, using an off peak day return 'any permitted' ticket. I'm a bit surprised because via Sevenoaks seems a lot more miles. Can anyone confirm?

Using the railmiles engine several times to force the right routes it's 26m1ch via Blackfriars and 30m24ch via Sevenoaks. That could well be within the tollerance for journey planners to offer it via the 3-mile rule.

A slightly cheaper route would appear to be DLR to Lewisham then use a Lewisham to Eynsford Not via London ticket*. You can either go Lewisham to Nunhead to Eysnford or Lewisham to Catford Bridge (walk) Catford to Eynsford. Confusingly there is an even cheaper Greenwich to Eynsford Not via London fare set by Thameslink, but I don't think that's valid on the DLR so you'd have to go via Charlton which will add considerably to the time.

*To get NRE to show this you need to avoid Nunhead because one route is faster one way and the other on the return which confuses it for some reason.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Thanks MikeWh. Definitely some different options. Doing a bit more testing, it seems that if I want to get from any station along the Woolwich line to Eynsford via London, it's the same as Greenwich: I can buy an off-peak any-permitted-route ticket, and the journey planner will suggest going via Sevenoaks. (Although not all Woolwich line stations seem to have not-via-London tickets).

However, if I try to go from London Bridge to Eynsford, it's immediately different: I can either buy a via Swanley ticket, or - if I want to go via Sevenoaks - I have to buy a not-via-HS1 ticket (the mind slightly boggles at how I would use HS1 for that journey ). The fact that via Swanley is given as a specific route suggests to me that the intention is for via Sevenoaks to be one of the permitted routes.

Interestingly, LBG-Eynsford via Swanley and the Greenwich-Eynsford any permitted tickets both cost £11.40 off-peak return, but LBG-Eynsford not-HS1 is £13.10 - so if you want to get to Eynsford via Sevenoaks, it's actually cheaper to start at Greenwich and travel into London Bridge first than it is to start at London Bridge!

Maybe it comes down to, journeys from Greenwich or stations along the Woolwich line to places like Eynsford are going to be so rare that SouthEastern didn't think it would be worth the bother pricing up route-specific tickets. But Eynsford to London is a sufficiently common journey for route specific options to be worthwhile for the TOC.

 

[JB_B]

Using the railmiles engine several times to force the right routes it's 26m1ch via Blackfriars and 30m24ch via Sevenoaks. That could well be within the tollerance for journey planners to offer it via the 3-mile rule.

Possiibly, but I don't think the shortest route rule can explain the London Bridge and Sevenoaks route the OP has been offered.

Direct:-
Greenwich to Eynsford is approx 18.5 miles.
Greenwich to Eynsford via London Bridge and Sevenoaks is 30.5 miles

Mapped:-
London Group and Swanley pass as destination routeing points (London Bridge is the nearest London Group member to Eynsford.)

For the local portions of these journeys from the destination routeing point:-

London Bridge to Eynsford is 17.5m
London Bridge to Eynsford via Sevenoaks is 26.5m

Swanley to Eynsford is 3m
Swanley to Eynsford via Sevenoaks is 16.5m (doubleback)

I don't think any journey planner would have a margin high enough to support going via Sevenoaks.

 

[30907]

However, if I try to go from London Bridge to Eynsford, it's immediately different: I can either buy a via Swanley ticket, or - if I want to go via Sevenoaks - I have to buy a not-via-HS1 ticket (the mind slightly boggles at how I would use HS1 for that journey ). The fact that via Swanley is given as a specific route suggests to me that the intention is for via Sevenoaks to be one of the permitted routes.

Maybe it comes down to, journeys from Greenwich or stations along the Woolwich line to places like Eynsford are going to be so rare that SouthEastern didn't think it would be worth the bother pricing up route-specific tickets. But Eynsford to London is a sufficiently common journey for route specific options to be worthwhile for the TOC.

A little detail, which may explain the different pricing strategy: Greenwich-Eynsford is priced by Thameslink-as-was (Woolwich is priced by SE).

I wonder if SE introduced ROUTE SWANLEY because the journey planners were allowing Sevenoaks? Doesn't explain WHY they allow it but hey!

 

[MikeWh]

Direct:-
Greenwich to Eynsford is approx 18.5 miles.

There are no trains that run direct from London Bridge to Swanley via the Chislehurst junctions. Thus that route is not valid as the shortest route.