Greenwich or Deptford to St Pancras

[TheManOnThe172]

I am trying to work out fare options from Greenwich or Deptford to St Pancras, and consulted BR Fares. For simplicity, I'm looking just at Peak single fares for now.

BRFares tells me that an Anytime Day Single from Greenwich or Deptford is £3.80. Expensive, but easy to understand. But after that, it all gets horribly confusing.

BRFares also lists two fares called "PAYG Peak Info" - with the curious validity of "NOT FOR TRAVEL (no break of journey)". Again, same fares from Greenwich or Deptford. One of these fares is routed "Not Underground" and costs £3.20. The other is routed "Any Permitted" and also costs £3.20

My guess is that the "not for travel" bit is spurious, and that these were the cost of a Contactless/Oyster journey. But then I checked the TFL website (for travel from what they call "Greenwich Rail station", with a BR logo - for "a single rail journey"), which tells me Contactless/Oyster costs £3.00 peak, with no comment about routing. If I check the prices for "Deptford Rail Station" - one stop closer to St Pancras - the cost is £4.80.

My least-unlikely explanation is that from Greenwich, the £3.20 "PAYG Peak Info" is the pure-rail price - for Southeastern/Thameslink services. And that the £3.00 TFL price (despite the use of the BR logo) from Greenwich is a DLR+Tube only fare. (And that "Any Permitted" for the second £3.20 PAYG Peak Info fare actually boils down to "not Underground" as well)

And from Deptford, I am presuming that the £4.80 TFL price is for the perverse routing of Deptford-Greenwich-Canary Wharf-Bank-St Pancras or Deptford-London Bridge (get off direct Thameslink train to St Pancras and change to tube)-St Pancras, while anyone sensible travelling directly on a Thameslink service would only be charged £3.20.

Or might I have got confused?

 

[island]

I am trying to work out fare options from Greenwich or Deptford to St Pancras, and consulted BR Fares. For simplicity, I'm looking just at Peak single fares for now.


BRFares tells me that an Anytime Day Single from Greenwich or Deptford is £3.80. Expensive, but easy to understand. But after that, it all gets horribly confusing.

So far so good. Note that this is only for use on the Thameslink route; you cannot use it on London Underground.

BRFares also lists two fares called "PAYG Peak Info" - with the curious validity of "NOT FOR TRAVEL (no break of journey)". Again, same fares from Greenwich or Deptford. One of these fares is routed "Not Underground" and costs £3.20. The other is routed "Any Permitted" and also costs £3.20

The ”NOT FOR TRAVEL” marker is to hopefully prevent any of these being issued as paper tickets. The fares need to be on the system for various purposes such as revenue allocation.

My guess is that the "not for travel" bit is spurious, and that these were the cost of a Contactless/Oyster journey.

That should be true.

But then I checked the TFL website (for travel from what they call "Greenwich Rail station", with a BR logo - for "a single rail journey"), which tells me Contactless/Oyster costs £3.00 peak, with no comment about routing. If I check the prices for "Deptford Rail Station" - one stop closer to St Pancras - the cost is £4.80.

My least-unlikely explanation is that from Greenwich, the £3.20 "PAYG Peak Info" is the pure-rail price - for Southeastern/Thameslink services. And that the £3.00 TFL price (despite the use of the BR logo) from Greenwich is a DLR+Tube only fare. (And that "Any Permitted" for the second £3.20 PAYG Peak Info fare actually boils down to "not Underground" as well)

And from Deptford, I am presuming that the £4.80 TFL price is for the perverse routing of Deptford-Greenwich-Canary Wharf-Bank-St Pancras or Deptford-London Bridge (get off direct Thameslink train to St Pancras and change to tube)-St Pancras, while anyone sensible travelling directly on a Thameslink service would only be charged £3.20.

Or might I have got confused?

I think you’ve got everything absolutely bang on in terms of what it’s intended to be. The only thing that’s not clear is whether you’ll actually be charged £3 or £3.20 if travelling Greenwich NR to St Pancras NR.

You can also use ltfares.com for Oyster/contactless prices and there tends to be a little more narrative there as to what the routes of different fares imply.

 

[Adoarable]

If you tap in at Greenwich and out at St Pancras (NR, not Underground), with no intermediate taps, you should be charged £3.00.

The reason this is £3.00 and not £3.20 is that you could in theory do the whole journey on services that are priced at the TfL-LU scale by going DLR to Bank then Underground to Farringdon then Thameslink to St Pancras. There is no requirement to actually travel via this route, nor to tap on any validators anywhere to prove it.

The £4.80 is what you'll be charged if you change between NR and Underground at London Bridge, Blackfriars, Cannon Street, Charing Cross, or Waterloo East.

Source: https://oysterfares.com/fare-finder/

 

[Watershed]

The fares need to be on the system for various purposes such as revenue allocation.

They're purely in the fares manuals (or digital equivalent thereof) for the information of ticket office staff.

 

[MikeWh]

They're purely in the fares manuals (or digital equivalent thereof) for the information of ticket office staff.

Correct. There is also absolutely no direct link between the RDG database and the TfL database so the fares quoted by RDG can be wrong or missing.

My least-unlikely explanation is that from Greenwich, the £3.20 "PAYG Peak Info" is the pure-rail price - for Southeastern/Thameslink services. And that the £3.00 TFL price (despite the use of the BR logo) from Greenwich is a DLR+Tube only fare. (And that "Any Permitted" for the second £3.20 PAYG Peak Info fare actually boils down to "not Underground" as well)

And from Deptford, I am presuming that the £4.80 TFL price is for the perverse routing of Deptford-Greenwich-Canary Wharf-Bank-St Pancras or Deptford-London Bridge (get off direct Thameslink train to St Pancras and change to tube)-St Pancras, while anyone sensible travelling directly on a Thameslink service would only be charged £3.20.

Or might I have got confused?

And there is a perfect example of the RDG database (via brfares) being wrong.

£3.20 is the NR1 zone 1-2 fare which is charged between Deptford and St Pancras using only Southeastern and/or Thameslink. £3.00 is the TfL-LU zone 1-2 fare which applies if Southeastern/TL is NOT used between Greenwich and London Bridge. However, as has been pointed out earlier, there is no way of telling whether travel is via London Bridge (NR) or Bank (DLR) so the cheaper fare is charged. £4.80 is the NR1-T zone 1-2 fare charged when travel includes late adopting NR services and Underground (or DLR). From Deptford or Greenwich this might be NR to London Bridge then LU to Farringdon then Thameslink to St Pancras.