Group Bourdon Test.

[bphill22]

Hello all,

Sorry if I've posted this is the wrong section. I know this has been discussed on other posts, but I had a few questions of my own regarding the test.
I have been doing my practise on paper timing myself 2 minutes to each section, at the end of my latest test I marked it and the results were 314 groups of 4 found in total, 0 wrong but I missed out 10 groups of 4 in total across the 5 sections, i am also getting on average 12-14 lines down. My question's are, if you miss any groups out does that count as a wrong answer? Would these results be a pass (I know the pass score is unknown but what's your opinion) ?

Any help or advice would be most appreciated and thank you kindly for any replying comments.

Stay safe!

 

[Gorlash1886]

In my opinion mate it probably wouldn't be good enough, the test is not just for speed but accuracy as well.
Really focus on the practise by slowing down at first so you don't miss any, then speed up trying to keep it at the same consistency.

 

[bphill22]

In my opinion mate it probably wouldn't be good enough, the test is not just for speed but accuracy as well.
Really focus on the practise by slowing down at first so you don't miss any, then speed up trying to keep it at the same consistency.

Hi mate, tried doing that today and I think you are right. Managed to get 300 correct, 0 wrong but missed 2 out. Will keep up the practise until I hit the nail on the head. Thanks again.

 

[RPOMan]

I sat the Group Bourdon back in October, definitely prioritise accuracy over speed. I average around 10 lines on the day without mistakes. Good luck!

 

[bphill22]

I sat the Group Bourdon back in October, definitely prioritise accuracy over speed. I average around 10 lines on the day without mistakes. Good luck!

Hi, thanks for you're reply. Will do!

 

[butch]

Hi,do any of you guys no of any websites where you can see example tests or even do practice tests ....cheers

 

[Gorlash1886]

Sticky thread in here has a download will only work properly on a Windows pc

 

[Trainrave]

Sticky thread in here has a download will only work properly on a Windows pc

If it helps anyone, I managed to get it running on a MacBook using “wine bottler” software to run the program.
I found a mixture of using the software as well as pen and paper practice exercises helped me pass the assessment on the day.

 

[Vola_c]

Hi,do any of you guys no of any websites where you can see example tests or even do practice tests ....cheers

There are some fantastic books online. "How to become a train driver" is worth every penny. It contains practice tests which are really handy.

 

[deepblue82]

I really a few posts on here saying that you can't improve this with practice. That was not my experience. Over several weeks, and forests worth of paper I improved a lot with the Group Bourdon. It's a year ago now so dont exactly remember but I averaged probably 10-12 rows on the OPC test itself and passed to an enhanced standard (Freightliner). My feeling was the pressure to rush to hit as many lines as possible led me to miss 4-dots. I hardly ever marked non 4-dot groups but often missed them (this is treated as the same - an error).

For me the difference between 10-12 lines and 12-14 lines was the difference between a lot of errors or just 3-4 across the test. No idea how many I missed on the day, probably not many given the result, but I do remember being told to stop, thinking I had done OK but hadn't covered many rows...then just as I looked down for the last time I saw a missed group right in the middle of the sheet....which then made me worry about how many others I had missed. Overall the test was marginally easier than the sheets I practised on (slightly bigger) but only marginally.

I found the other tests in the first part of the day relatively OK. The second set of tests where harder - the 2-hand test and photo memory tests were very difficult - 2 and test because of the sensitivity of the machine, the photo memory test because the images are show for a fraction of a second it felt, definitely harder than practice tests I thought. I was pretty sure I had failed both. Having completed these the Group Bourdon didn't seem too bad, its about staying calm and consistent and not worrying if others around you are banging out sheets and sheets of lines.

 

[Vola_c]

I really a few posts on here saying that you can't improve this with practice. That was not my experience. Over several weeks, and forests worth of paper I improved a lot with the Group Bourdon. It's a year ago now so dont exactly remember but I averaged probably 10-12 rows on the OPC test itself and passed to an enhanced standard (Freightliner). My feeling was the pressure to rush to hit as many lines as possible led me to miss 4-dots. I hardly ever marked non 4-dot groups but often missed them (this is treated as the same - an error).

For me the difference between 10-12 lines and 12-14 lines was the difference between a lot of errors or just 3-4 across the test. No idea how many I missed on the day, probably not many given the result, but I do remember being told to stop, thinking I had done OK but hadn't covered many rows...then just as I looked down for the last time I saw a missed group right in the middle of the sheet....which then made me worry about how many others I had missed. Overall the test was marginally easier than the sheets I practised on (slightly bigger) but only marginally.

I found the other tests in the first part of the day relatively OK. The second set of tests where harder - the 2-hand test and photo memory tests were very difficult - 2 and test because of the sensitivity of the machine, the photo memory test because the images are show for a fraction of a second it felt, definitely harder than practice tests I thought. I was pretty sure I had failed both. Having completed these the Group Bourdon didn't seem too bad, its about staying calm and consistent and not worrying if others around you are banging out sheets and sheets of lines.

That's really great advice

 

[richfoz84]

Familiarise yourself with the shapes of the dots, and look for the patterns of 4.. certainly helped me to pass!

 

[Undiscovered]

The Bourden tool sticky has an option to print out sheets. Do this. And only do it once per day. Your brain needs time to process what you're doing.

Practise on paper, 2minutes per sheet, 5sheets total, 10minutes total. Be strict on these timings, and on your marking, as OPC will be.

Accuracy and consistency are key ie no mistakes 10-12 lines per sheet, for a random example. No good banging out 20lines on sheet 1 and then tailing off over the other 4 sheets.

 

[Rylievie]

I feel like these tests are designed to put you under pressure to make you rush. You will find within sections of the exam it will be very rare you complete everything put in front of you. The railway is not about working quickly its about concentrating, not making mistakes and following directions accurately. With the group bourdon test definitely focus on the accuracy over speed and try not to get caught in the trap of trying to get a couple more in when that buzzer goes move onto the next or the pressure will mount. If there are 4 papers for example and you get 13 rows 13 rows 11 rows 9 rows and a few wrong as you were too focused on the amount at the beginning. They are more likely to favour 4 pages of 10 rows with nothing wrong. That would show accuracy, consistency and following instructions. Good luck

 

[Sebby]

Hi,
I did it back in august and was to the national enhanced level. I think I went around 11/12 lines.

In the practice I was getting zero mistakes and missing 1 or 2 over the 5 pages.

Passed though

 

[bphill22]

I really a few posts on here saying that you can't improve this with practice. That was not my experience. Over several weeks, and forests worth of paper I improved a lot with the Group Bourdon. It's a year ago now so dont exactly remember but I averaged probably 10-12 rows on the OPC test itself and passed to an enhanced standard (Freightliner). My feeling was the pressure to rush to hit as many lines as possible led me to miss 4-dots. I hardly ever marked non 4-dot groups but often missed them (this is treated as the same - an error).

For me the difference between 10-12 lines and 12-14 lines was the difference between a lot of errors or just 3-4 across the test. No idea how many I missed on the day, probably not many given the result, but I do remember being told to stop, thinking I had done OK but hadn't covered many rows...then just as I looked down for the last time I saw a missed group right in the middle of the sheet....which then made me worry about how many others I had missed. Overall the test was marginally easier than the sheets I practised on (slightly bigger) but only marginally.

I found the other tests in the first part of the day relatively OK. The second set of tests where harder - the 2-hand test and photo memory tests were very difficult - 2 and test because of the sensitivity of the machine, the photo memory test because the images are show for a fraction of a second it felt, definitely harder than practice tests I thought. I was pretty sure I had failed both. Having completed these the Group Bourdon didn't seem too bad, its about staying calm and consistent and not worrying if others around you are banging out sheets and sheets of lines.

Hi,

Thanks for sharing you're experience with the process you went through. It sounds like I'm in the same boat as you were, I'm not getting any wrong but missing some on each paper, some i have missed 1 group out and on other papers I have missed 4 out. Missing them out is what is getting to me so I have started to slow down doing 10-12 lines rather than more lines. Thanks for you're reply at great advice!

 

[Twotwo]

Hi,

Thanks for sharing you're experience with the process you went through. It sounds like I'm in the same boat as you were, I'm not getting any wrong but missing some on each paper, some i have missed 1 group out and on other papers I have missed 4 out. Missing them out is what is getting to me so I have started to slow down doing 10-12 lines rather than more lines. Thanks for you're reply at great advice!

This test is probably the only one you actually pratice for. If it helps, the dots are deffo bigger when doing the assesments then the ones you've been praticising and it's also easier on paper then on the computer. A good tip is to recognise the different combination of 4 dots for example (L and Y to name a few)

 

[butch]

I really a few posts on here saying that you can't improve this with practice. That was not my experience. Over several weeks, and forests worth of paper I improved a lot with the Group Bourdon. It's a year ago now so dont exactly remember but I averaged probably 10-12 rows on the OPC test itself and passed to an enhanced standard (Freightliner). My feeling was the pressure to rush to hit as many lines as possible led me to miss 4-dots. I hardly ever marked non 4-dot groups but often missed them (this is treated as the same - an error).

For me the difference between 10-12 lines and 12-14 lines was the difference between a lot of errors or just 3-4 across the test. No idea how many I missed on the day, probably not many given the result, but I do remember being told to stop, thinking I had done OK but hadn't covered many rows...then just as I looked down for the last time I saw a missed group right in the middle of the sheet....which then made me worry about how many others I had missed. Overall the test was marginally easier than the sheets I practised on (slightly bigger) but only marginally.

I found the other tests in the first part of the day relatively OK. The second set of tests where harder - the 2-hand test and photo memory tests were very difficult - 2 and test because of the sensitivity of the machine, the photo memory test because the images are show for a fraction of a second it felt, definitely harder than practice tests I thought. I was pretty sure I had failed both. Having completed these the Group Bourdon didn't seem too bad, its about staying calm and consistent and not worrying if others around you are banging out sheets and sheets of lines.

thanks for the help its really appreciated

 

[f1nch26]

Not sure if it's any help, but I found it easier if I kept my right hand (I'm right handed) out of the way of the next groups in the row so that I could scan ahead for any groups of 4, rather than reacting to any that were uncovered as my hand went over the top of them...hope that makes sense!

 

[Rangers1234]

B

 

[butch]

Not sure if it's any help, but I found it easier if I kept my right hand (I'm right handed) out of the way of the next groups in the row so that I could scan ahead for any groups of 4, rather than reacting to any that were uncovered as my hand went over the top of them...hope that makes sense!

good bit of advice and very much appreciated