Group Bourdon Tool

Discussion in 'Railway Jobs & Careers' started by Mojo, 24 Feb 2013.

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  1. Mojo

    Mojo Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    Chris Gresham has kindly agreed that the forum may host a free-to-download copy of his "Group Bourdon Tool" software.

    Note that he can't offer support via the email address in the program any longer, as that domain has expired and therefore no longer valid.

    He would like users to be aware of the following:

    He has requested that this software is not redistributed anywhere else, or changed in any way.

    http://www.railforums.co.uk/bourdon.zip
     
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  3. shan5742

    shan5742 Member

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    lol I finally find one somewhere else and then it appears on rail forums :). thanks tho!!!
     
  4. simple

    simple New Member

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    This is really useful thank you.
     
  5. Dazza

    Dazza Member

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    I agree, most helpful, difficult, but helpful.

    Cheers,

    Daz
     
  6. LCC106

    LCC106 Member

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    That's excellent news!
     
  7. Blillpers

    Blillpers Member

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    I just tried it. A similar test is being used here in Sweden (together with the infamous "jumping dot"-test), so this is propably going to be really helpful! Are these results any good? :)

    [​IMG]
     
  8. LCC106

    LCC106 Member

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    It's a good base to work on... You just need to reduce the omitted's now! (Other than that IIRC my results were similar to yours with practice).
     
  9. Beveridges

    Beveridges Established Member

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    Thats OK for a first attempt, but needs more work before sitting the test for real
     
  10. cemkarakurt

    cemkarakurt New Member

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    my best was 1354 cells
     
  11. Blillpers

    Blillpers Member

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    Third attempt, great improvements! Good thing there are two years before I can even take the test, lots of time to practice!:lol:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Will8hawes

    Will8hawes Member

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    thanks so much for this Chris Gresham / mojo very greatfull :)
     
  13. JCLeeds

    JCLeeds Member

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    Not sure if this is working properly for me; the GBT version doesnt give any instructions on what to find and mark, what are you meant to do with the dots? Find patterns that replicate the first set? Any guidance appreciated
     
    Last edited: 19 Mar 2013
  14. FlamTap

    FlamTap Member

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    The program comes with built-in help covering everything you need to know, and includes a "quick start" section. The mouse isn't used.
     
  15. JCLeeds

    JCLeeds Member

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    Thanks, figured out the GBT as well as SCAAT now
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    The GBT is way harder than the SCAAT. I'm managing in the 1000+ cell region on GBT with 20+ omitted. What levels do we need to be attaining here? And what is more important, speed or accuracy?
     
    Last edited: 24 Mar 2013
  16. playmore64

    playmore64 Member

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    Really! I prefer the GBT all day every day:D

    In all honesty both are a major factor but I would place accuracy before speedy.
     
  17. NI 271

    NI 271 Member

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    Me too. GB is much easier to do using peripheral vision, so you can go much faster, in my opinion.
     
  18. liamsam27

    liamsam27 Member

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    many thanks for this, very useful
     
  19. hopefultrainee

    hopefultrainee New Member

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    hi thanks very much for this, I can't seem to get the help function, even after following the advice given. Is there any chance someone could give some instructions on how to practice the test? It would be most appreciated. Thanks
     
  20. NI 271

    NI 271 Member

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    Both use same controls, right arrow to move along from left to right, left arrow to go back (will only go back a maximum of one space), up arrow to mark/unmark the group in the box.

    Any problems, let me know, I'm off work tomorrow so will be on here at some point.
     
  21. JCLeeds

    JCLeeds Member

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    I couldnt get the help to work either. Choose test type, SCAAT or GBT. Leave settings as default. SCAAT tells you what to look for on each sheet; controls are arrow keys; right goes right, up marks a cell, left goes left but you get one left space only to correct a fault. Up also unmarks on a correction. Keep going one cell at a time left to right until it tells you its finished, then you get a score.

    I still dont know what is a good score!
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Recent scores; anyone who can advise how these stack up?

    SCAAT Total cells 1253, omitted 4, incorrect none

    GBT Total cells 1120, omitted 7, incorrect none

    All settings left as default
     
  22. Beveridges

    Beveridges Established Member

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    I've said it before & I'll say it again, 7 omitted "might" pass but you should aim for 2 or less to be safe
     
  23. daddy_badger

    daddy_badger Member

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    In round 1 of scaat you have to find a particular shape on every row working left to right. In round 2 you have to find 2 particular shapes in every row working left to right. In round 3 of scaat you have to find a particular shape plus the first shape at the the start of each row for that row only. Hope that makes sense. On the paper gbt there are 18 rows, I managed to get to 14 making 1 mistake that I corrected on the 5th sheet. I passed, however you still need to do well in the TRP and MT4 (if the toc you apply to uses that test.)
     
  24. 387star

    387star On Moderation

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    omissions and incorrect selections are both marked as negative I think? therefore they are as bad as each other especially when there are multiple mistakes per page

    am I right?
     
  25. bandit

    bandit Member

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    Overall Statistics:
    -------------------

    Perception & Attention:

    Targets Omitted ------------ 3
    Marked Incorrect ----------- None


    Speed:

    Total Cells ---------------- 1350
    Mean Cell Time ------------- 0.289
    Median Cell Time ----------- 0.230

    Completed Rows ------------- 52
    Mean Row Time -------------- 7.234
    Median Row Time ------------ 7.240


    Vigilance:

    Row Fluctuation ------------ 2.09
    Does this look a good practise? Still working on the omitted.
     
  26. daddy_badger

    daddy_badger Member

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    Who is your assessment with? Try 3 sheets at 2:00 minutes .
     
  27. bandit

    bandit Member

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    ATW got it thurs
     
  28. daddy_badger

    daddy_badger Member

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    Might be ok, although nobody knows the pass mark. 1 missed is good, believe the row fluctuation needs to be low also so would say that score looks ok, but do not quote me on that. Scoring I think is different between TOCs and may take x number of the top percentage. Keep practicing, but not on the day before.
     
  29. TDK

    TDK Established Member

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    Scoring is down to the quality of the candidates. If you gett all the candidates passing then it will be graded, although you have passed the assessment if someone has a higher score than you in the GB/Reaction etc it could mean you will be put on hold where the other candiate will not. So say for example you have 20 candidates and they all pass the assessments and the company only need 10 drivers, ten will be put on hold.

    Don't worry about row fluctuation and all these figures, just be consistant and accurate and you will pass.
     
  30. Flyboy

    Flyboy Member

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    On GBT I usually average about 12 rows and 300 cells per sheet giving a total of 1500 for the complete test, normally with about 2 to 3 omissions. I'm therefore trying to slow down to around 1400 cells in order to aim for zero omissions, however, my row fluctuation (vigilance) score is usually up at around 3 or 4. TDK - you say don't worry about row fluctuation but should I realistically be looking to get this lower?
     
  31. Beveridges

    Beveridges Established Member

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    A row fluctuation of 3-4 means you are consistant, 2 is very consistant and anything under 2 is robot-like


    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---



    I had a look to see if my results are still saved on computer. These are some of my results from my last couple of practice attempts of this very boring test, back on the 13th December 2007.

    GBT test results 1

    Overall Statistics:
    -------------------
    Perception & Attention:
    Targets Omitted ------------ None
    Marked Incorrect ----------- 3
    Speed:
    Total Cells ---------------- 1519
    Mean Cell Time ------------- 0.253
    Median Cell Time ----------- 0.230
    Completed Rows ------------- 58
    Mean Row Time -------------- 6.324
    Median Row Time ------------ 6.250
    Vigilance:
    Row Fluctuation ------------ 3.47

    GBT test results 2

    Overall Statistics:
    -------------------
    Perception & Attention:
    Targets Omitted ------------ 1
    Marked Incorrect ----------- 1
    Speed:
    Total Cells ---------------- 1630
    Mean Cell Time ------------- 0.235
    Median Cell Time ----------- 0.220
    Completed Rows ------------- 64
    Mean Row Time -------------- 5.878
    Median Row Time ------------ 5.860
    Vigilance:
    Row Fluctuation ------------ 2.97


    Passed with Grade A when I did the real thing.

    Don't know what I'd get if I practiced again now, the test is so boring I can't motivate myself to have another go at it just for the sake of seeing if I can still do it.
     
    Last edited: 7 Apr 2013
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