Groupsave on East Midlands Trains

[John @ home]

Does anyone know which journeys priced by EMT are eligible for Groupsave?

www.groupsave.co.uk gives a map of London and the South-East only.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/pr354fdc0a0400020101fea1769fbf60/details.html does not indicate any particular restrictions for EMT, but the last National Fares Manual NFM99 said SVR tickets were not valid for Groupsave on EMT. Has this changed? - NFM 02 shows the discount.

www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/EMTrains/Tickets/CheapTrainTickets.htm says GroupSave tickets ... are available on many journeys in the East Midlands region. It then invites me to phone a number which will tell me if any particular journey qualifies for Groupsave.

But that's the opposite of what I want. I want to know what the rules are and then to plan an appropriate journey.

John

 

[dan_atki]

NFM02 indicates the EMT form of Groupsave by fare types GR3 and GR4 (with discount set as 'Public'). In this case the fare quoted is the total for all passengers.

E.g. Bedford Stations to Wellingborough has GR3 (£15.05) and GR4 (£15.20). These can be found by leaving number of passengers as 0 (which shows both*), or by setting passengers as 3 or 4 to show the total in comparison to other ticket types.

*However, this doesn't provide a direct comparison with other total fares as £15.05 is the price for all 3 passengers, but then lists a CDR at £7.60 which is obviously for just one passenger.

 

[John @ home]

NFM02 indicates the EMT form of Groupsave by fare types GR3 and GR4 (with discount set as 'Public'). In this case the fare quoted is the total for all passengers.

Thanks for this. I was entering GROUP SAVE 3 or 4 in the Discount box and the appropriate number in Adult: and this was showing the discount even when none of the Groupsave TOCs operate a service, eg. York to Huddersfield.

This information will allow me to check each journey myself, rather than make a phone call. But it would still save time if I knew the rules, if there are any.

I notice ticket types GR3 and GR4 both say No restriction applies. Are the actual restrictions those of the appropriate Off-Peak Day Return, eg. B1 for Leicester - Derby?

John

 

[Max]

Based on some of my own recent investigations, these tickets take up the corresponding off peak restrictions, which of course vary somewhat. Sheffield-Derby is one that is available. Importantly, these tickets are not valid on XC, despite being route any permitted.

 

[dan_atki]

This information will allow me to check each journey myself, rather than make a phone call. But it would still save time if I knew the rules, if there are any.

At a couple of rough enquiries, it would appear they exist where CDRs priced by EMT exist. So it looks to be a distance and who sets the flow argument.

I notice ticket types GR3 and GR4 both say No restriction applies. Are the actual restrictions those of the appropraite Off-Peak Day Return, eg. B1 for Leicester - Derby?

Correct - the restiction comes from the undiscounted ticket's restriction code.

 

[mumrar]

Importantly, these tickets are not valid on XC, despite being route any permitted.

And don't I know it having come across a fair few passenegers the other day travelling on a Stoke-Nottingham Groupsave4, they hadn't (or claimed as such) been told about the restriction at the booking office.

 

[Max]

Mumar, I'm not really sure how you can say 'claimed', it's obvious that what they were saying was plausible by the fact that the restrictions are extremely hard to get hold of, even for people who know the system inside out. They should not be route any permitted (which is very confusing), but route EMT only.

 

[yorkie]

Based on some of my own recent investigations, these tickets take up the corresponding off peak restrictions, which of course vary somewhat. Sheffield-Derby is one that is available. Importantly, these tickets are not valid on XC, despite being route any permitted.

If they are routed Any Permitted then they are valid on any TOC, as per the NCoC (as discussed previously)

 

[John @ home]

They should not be route any permitted (which is very confusing), but route EMT only.

I don't think route EMT only is appropriate. If the last printed Fares Manual is to be believed, the restriction was not to a single TOC but to the group of eleven TOCs which operate Groupsave.

So a £26.60 GR4 from Ely to Norwich was valid on NXEA as well as EMT.

I agree with yorkie about the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. Para 10 says
10. Tickets valid only in trains of particular Train Companies The validity of a ticket may:
a) be restricted to; or
b) prohibit
travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies. Any such restriction or prohibition will be shown on the ticket.
If a purported restriction is not shown on the ticket, then it does not apply.

John