Groupsave on EMT

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Hadders

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6 adults and 2 children travelling from Bedford to London (requiring travelcards) on Saturday 17 March, returning same day. Between the group we have 2 Network Railcards.

Cheapest fare I can see is for super off peak travelcards £68.40 for us all (4 adults Groupsave 4 £40, 2 Groupsave child £2, 2 adult Network Railcard discounted £26.40).

This is fantastic value for 8 people to travel on a walk-up basis (unless anyone knows any better!).

Question is - can Groupsave be used on the fast EMT services to/from Bedford? On-line booking sites appear not to allow it, EMT and National Rail websites say that Groupsave is available on some EMT routes without saying which they are. IIRC the tickets will be Any Permitted not FCC Only so how is joe public supposed to know whether it's valid or not?

Many thanks in anticipation.
 
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yorkie

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This has cropped up in a few threads, the most comprehensive / recent one is probably:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=55756

(although that ticket is from Luton, the same debate applies)

Note post #16 which quotes the NRCoC.

I would definitely be willing to proof read and assist in writing a letter of appeal if EMT were to refuse to adhere to the NRCoC and charge an excess.
 

hairyhandedfool

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....Question is - can Groupsave be used on the fast EMT services to/from Bedford? On-line booking sites appear not to allow it, EMT and National Rail websites say that Groupsave is available on some EMT routes without saying which they are. IIRC the tickets will be Any Permitted not FCC Only so how is joe public supposed to know whether it's valid or not?....
EMT do Groupsave differently to FCC. For FCC it is a discount to a regular fare, for EMT it is a different ticket type. The fares for Bedford-London are set by FCC so there is no EMT Groupsave fare.

The Groupsave scheme FCC operate is not valid on EMT in much the same way that Network Railcards are not valid on Gatwick Express or Eurostar services.
 

Bellwater

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6 adults and 2 children travelling from Bedford to London (requiring travelcards) on Saturday 17 March, returning same day. Between the group we have 2 Network Railcards.

Cheapest fare I can see is for super off peak travelcards £68.40 for us all (4 adults Groupsave 4 £40, 2 Groupsave child £2, 2 adult Network Railcard discounted £26.40).

This is fantastic value for 8 people to travel on a walk-up basis (unless anyone knows any better!).

Question is - can Groupsave be used on the fast EMT services to/from Bedford? On-line booking sites appear not to allow it, EMT and National Rail websites say that Groupsave is available on some EMT routes without saying which they are. IIRC the tickets will be Any Permitted not FCC Only so how is joe public supposed to know whether it's valid or not?

Many thanks in anticipation.
Big posters at Bedford/Luton saying 'Groupsave' Tickets not valid on EMT.

 

Wyvern

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When will we have a joined-up railway?

Why does everything have to be so complicated?
 

OwlMan

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This has cropped up in a few threads, the most comprehensive / recent one is probably:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=55756

(although that ticket is from Luton, the same debate applies)

Note post #16 which quotes the NRCoC.

I would definitely be willing to proof read and assist in writing a letter of appeal if EMT were to refuse to adhere to the NRCoC and charge an excess.
But the NRCoC also allow exceptions for discounted tickets

From NRCoC Introduction
These Conditions set out your rights and any restrictions to those rights. The Train Companies may give you more extensive rights than those set out in these Conditions and, if they do so, these may be found in each Train Company’s Passenger’s Charter or other publications. Details of where you can find this information will be available when you buy your ticket. The Train Companies may not give you less extensive rights, except in the case of some types of reduced and discounted fare tickets where the relevant condition(s) specifically allow them to do so. These Conditions set out the minimum level of rights you are entitled to expect.


It is quite clear in the GroupSave T&Cs (from FCC website) that it is not valid on EMT

GroupSave Terms and Conditions




  1. Full terms and conditions are available at the station ticket office.
  2. GroupSave fares are based on all people travelling together at all times and cannot split from the group to travel separately. Failure to do so could result in a penalty fare.
  3. Participating Train Operators in London and the South East are: c2c, Chiltern Railways, First Capital Connect, First Great Western, London Midland, London Overground, National Express East Anglia (excludes Stansted Express), Southeastern, South West Trains and Southern.
  4. GroupSave is NOT available for travel on services operated by East Midlands Trains to/from Bedford, Luton or Luton Airport Parkway and East Coast Trains to/from Stevenage.
  5. GroupSave 3 is available for combinations of 3 adults; 2 adults and 1 child; 1 adult and 2 children.
  6. GroupSave 4 is available for combinations of 4 adults; 2 adults and 2 children; 1 adult and 3 children; 3 adults and 1 child.
  7. GroupSave is valid on Off-Peak Day Returns for return on the same day, where available.
  8. GroupSave is valid on Off-Peak Day Travelcards for travel only from stations outside of the London area (not for purchase in the London Fares Zones 1-6).
  9. GroupSave is valid on Off-Peak Returns for return within one calendar month, where available.
  10. Travel time and date restrictions apply.
  11. Participating Train Operators in London and the South East offer a special £1 flat fare for additional accompanying children.

Peter
 

Hadders

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Thanks for your replies.

If EMT wish to do their own group discounts then shouldn't they call it something different to Groupsave (they even use the Groupsave logo on their website).

If EMT really don't want to participate in Groupsave then all that is needed is for Groupsave tickets from Bedford to be routed 'Not E.Mids Trns' (FCC only would not suffice as IIRC tickets from Bedford to London are valid via Bletchley)

If I was travelling on my own I would be more than happy to enter into 'dialogue' with RPI's/barrier staff as necessary. Trouble is with 7 members of friends/family in tow the last thing I need is a scene on board the train or at the barriers at St.Pancras.

I am reasonably knowledgeable when it comes to rail fares (thanks to this forum) but how is an ordinary member of the public supposed to know this. I thought rail fares were supposed to be simple!
 
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