GTR 365 to storage

[gazthomas]

I'm guessing you've never actually been on a 365, as they most certainly do reach 40mph a lot sooner than that!

I agree, both the 365 and 319 are faster than that!

 

[gazthomas]

Could they be shortened, have shoes fitted and used on the Moorgate branch?

The issue with Moorgate would be the lack of emergency access at either end of the unit

 

[Hadders]

Could someone explain what makes these units so great? My memories of taking these between London, Cambridge, and Ely, is them being noisy, uncomfortable to sit in, and terrible luggage storage (once I realised where it was). And odd toilet smells if you sat in the wrong carriage. To be fair I don't spend much time on British EMUs so I don't have much data to compare with...

To be honest with you I don't recognise what you say about them. In my experience they have decent seats, with a 2+2 layout wide aisle to allow standing (although normally there isn't much need for standing on them). Reasonable 1st class compartments. Air conditioning would be nice but they were built in the mid 1990s when air con wasn't fitted on such trains. A decent fit for purpose train for the outer suburban routes they're used on.

If you think the 365s are bad then I wonder what you'll think of the the interior of a class 700...

If it came to that, don't see why they couldn't just keep doing it with 700s into the Cross instead...

I'm sure they will do this as far as they can but I suspect terminating trains round at Kings Cross but running the enhanced timetable will require more trains due to the additional dwell time will require more trains. If this is necessary I wonder where there might be some trains that could be pressed into service quickly on the Great Northern network....

 

[43096]

Could they be shortened, have shoes fitted and used on the Moorgate branch?

No. Moorgate trains need end doors for emergency evacuation.

 

[bramling]

Could someone explain what makes these units so great? My memories of taking these between London, Cambridge, and Ely, is them being noisy, uncomfortable to sit in, and terrible luggage storage (once I realised where it was). And odd toilet smells if you sat in the wrong carriage. To be fair I don't spend much time on British EMUs so I don't have much data to compare with...

I think their main thing is that as a compromise design they have actually managed to be successful, which is something few designs have achieved in practice. They provide a good amount of comfortable seating (even better prior to the recent refresh) for longer journeys, but at the same time work well on suburban work with spacious aisles and reasonable standing room. They also have good first class.

If you look at the Electrostars, which is another compromise design, they simply don’t achieve the same result so well. They’re okay on longer runs (apart from the ironing board seats), but awful on suburban work. The reduction in both seating and standing space is noticeable - a medium loaded train will feel crowded on an Electrostar whereas it probably won’t on a 365.

 

[chubs]

Could someone explain what makes these units so great? My memories of taking these between London, Cambridge, and Ely, is them being noisy, uncomfortable to sit in, and terrible luggage storage (once I realised where it was). And odd toilet smells if you sat in the wrong carriage. To be fair I don't spend much time on British EMUs so I don't have much data to compare with...

Nostalgia, and the mindset that outdated stock should live on forever and everything new is bad. Whilst the 365's are far from the worst clapped out junk operating on our rails everything you have said is true.

As for the electrostar comparison I'd take a 375 over a 365 any day, but accept the 379's seem to have deteriorated very quickly.

 

[mic505]

I have travelled on a 365 and a 319, but not a 323. I know for fact the 365's aren't as quick as the 323's. Obviously the 365's are miles better than the 319's.

 

[mic505]

What about up to 90mph then?

 

[Hadders]

Top speed of the 365s is 100mph. I've no expert knowledge but having travelled on them thousands of times over the last 20+ years they are no slouches.

 

[Ianno87]

Top speed of the 365s is 100mph. I've no expert knowledge but having travelled on them thousands of times over the last 20+ years they are no slouches.

..compared to a 323 which is "only" 90mph!

I'd say that there's not much between the two acceleration wise. 323s are probably slightly better off the mark, but 365s keep the acceleration going better through higher speeds. Both are pretty good though.

 

[adamedwards]

If refurbished and fitted with Aircon, could the 365s be nippy enough to do the London to York stoppers, freeing up Azuma for more trains to Edinburgh and Leeds? I'm guessing acceleration compensating for lower top speed?

 

[mic505]

Ok then.

 

[bramling]

If refurbished and fitted with Aircon, could the 365s be nippy enough to do the London to York stoppers, freeing up Azuma for more trains to Edinburgh and Leeds? I'm guessing acceleration compensating for lower top speed?

If one were to go down this road it would be better to pull 110mph 387s off the Cambridge route and replace those with 365s. The latter would then have some SDO issues which would need resolving.

 

[47802]

If refurbished and fitted with Aircon, could the 365s be nippy enough to do the London to York stoppers, freeing up Azuma for more trains to Edinburgh and Leeds? I'm guessing acceleration compensating for lower top speed?

Meanwhile in the real world that wont be happening

 

[Class465fan]

If refurbished and fitted with Aircon, could the 365s be nippy enough to do the London to York stoppers, freeing up Azuma for more trains to Edinburgh and Leeds? I'm guessing acceleration compensating for lower top speed?

I would like to see them run London to York services but as @47802 said that's unlikely to happen (unfortunately).

 

[jamieP]

57 failed today. 533 & 527 should move on Sunday.

 

[Class 170101]

My suspicion is that when it all goes wrong fewer services will go through the core from the GN side meaning more services will need to revert to King's Cross. This will require more trains which is where the thought about 365s returning comes from.

If it came to that, don't see why they couldn't just keep doing it with 700s into the Cross instead...

Exactly my thoughts. It seems more wishful thinking.

If GN services were terminated at Kings Cross then similarly some services south of the river would need to be terminated, probably at Blackfriars Bay Platforms, London Bridge or possibly Cannon Street. Since all four of these would be terminal statuion for some services those services would spend longer than usual at suich stations so yes more Rolling Stock would be required.

 

[AlanFry1]

There was a 365 passing stratford at around 7:00-7:15 yesterday from hackney wick direction - showing up on RTT as going to Ilford - Are GA taking 365s?

 

[MatthewRead]

There was a 365 passing stratford at around 7:00-7:15 yesterday from hackney wick direction - showing up on RTT as going to Ilford - Are GA taking 365s?

I think that's where the overhauls are carried out.

 

[43096]

There was a 365 passing stratford at around 7:00-7:15 yesterday from hackney wick direction - showing up on RTT as going to Ilford - Are GA taking 365s?

No. Ilford do the C4 overhauls on them.

 

[MatthewRead]

No. Ilford do the C4 overhauls on them.

That's what I meant

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

If GN services were terminated at Kings Cross then similarly some services south of the river would need to be terminated, probably at Blackfriars Bay Platforms, London Bridge or possibly Cannon Street. Since all four of these would be terminal statuion for some services those services would spend longer than usual at such stations so yes more Rolling Stock would be required.

Yes but they would no longer be spending time traversing the core which means time saved. Given a Blackfriars-St Pancras time of 10 minutes (give or take) that time would now be available as turnround time. Given some small adjustments to timetables and turnrounds elsewhere the number of additional units needed might not be very big. And perhaps cut something back somewhere (where there is duplication) and bingo, no extra units needed at all!

 

[Class465fan]

There was a 365 passing stratford at around 7:00-7:15 yesterday from hackney wick direction - showing up on RTT as going to Ilford - Are GA taking 365s?

Any pictures?

 

[D365]

Not sure if there are of said ECS movements but there are photos of numerous 'visiting' units at Ilford if you search around a bit.

 

[jon0844]

Yes but they would no longer be spending time traversing the core which means time saved. Given a Blackfriars-St Pancras time of 10 minutes (give or take) that time would now be available as turnround time. Given some small adjustments to timetables and turnrounds elsewhere the number of additional units needed might not be very big. And perhaps cut something back somewhere (where there is duplication) and bingo, no extra units needed at all!

I think that going forward, if there's major disruption there will be an emergency timetable implemented that will probably run with fewer units. I have no idea what this might be, but the most simple option would be to run trains as all station stoppers or something.

 

[AlanFry1]

Any pictures?

Class 365 approaching Stratford

• AlanFry1
• 18 Feb 2018

Just the far distant picture from QEOP!

 

[Class 170101]

There was a 365 passing stratford at around 7:00-7:15 yesterday from hackney wick direction - showing up on RTT as going to Ilford - Are GA taking 365s?

It would be going to visit Bombardier sheds at Ilford Depot and nothing to do with GA. A Class 365 is not routed cleared for the majority of the GA network.

 

[Class465fan]

It would be going to visit Bombardier sheds at Ilford Depot and nothing to do with GA. A Class 365 is not routed cleared for the majority of the GA network.

What route in the GA network are they clear to run on?

 

[Failed Unit]

Quick, get them cleared for Edinburgh- Glasgow.

Scotrail may need them in place of the 385 was if they don’t sort the visibility issues.

 

[swt_passenger]

If refurbished and fitted with Aircon, could the 365s be nippy enough to do the London to York stoppers, freeing up Azuma for more trains to Edinburgh and Leeds? I'm guessing acceleration compensating for lower top speed?

There is no need to free anything up for more ECML trains because the EC IEP fleet is already ordered and is significantly larger than the fleet it is replacing, specifically to allow for all the planned extra long distance services. Your hypothetical use of 365s instead seems to be clutching at straws...