GTR Key Smartcard?

[greyman42]

Mods note - split from here.

What is a Key Smartcard?

 

[Watershed]

What is a Key Smartcard?

GTR's brand for their ITSO smartcard. It can be enabled for KeyGo, which allows you to travel PAYG, like contactless in London, on GTR services. The issue is that the smartcard is not transferable.

 

[trainmania100]

Sorry I've never used smart card. Does the value of a smart card decrease with usage ? Eg like a bank account having cash withdrawn?
Or does a smart card provide, like a bus week saver, give unlimited travel between two dates?

If the latter, I can understand why a company would want to limit it to avoid free travel by everyone and their kids, but if it decreases with each travel, and this case the person is travelling with the mother's approval, I can't see why they're making such a big deal out of it. Wouldn't be much different if the mother just gave the op some cash

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry I've never used smart card. Does the value of a smart card decrease with usage ? Eg like a bank account having cash withdrawn?
Or does a smart card provide, like a bus week saver, give unlimited travel between two dates?

If the latter, I can understand why a company would want to limit it to avoid free travel by everyone and their kids, but if it decreases with each travel, and this case the person is travelling with the mother's approval, I can't see why they're making such a big deal out of it. Wouldn't be much different if the mother just gave the op some cash

A “smart card” can often do both. Which is why people have mentioned that the TfL cards, (ie Oyster) can be transferred but only when they only contain a pay as you go product, without a railcard discount. Anytime you add a season type product such as a weekly rail/tube travelcard they then become non-transferable.

So the exam question is why do the T&C for this TOC product, the “Key” smartcard, not work the same way…

 

[spag23]

Yes. My Smart Card (actually a Thameslink Key Card) only ever "carried" a season ticket. So it was just an ongoing licence to travel an infinite number of times (up to its expiry of course!). No balance issues, regardless of use. Understandably it was not transferable.
But the card in the OP's case was apparently a pay-as -you-go variant. So each journey would have just reduced any positive balance already loaded on it. Or - if exhausted - resulted in some sort of auto top-up from a feeder account. Either way, there would no loss to the TOC, regardless of who used it (assuming no age discounts were involved).

 

[Watershed]

Yes. My Smart Card (actually a Thameslink Key Card) only ever "carried" a season ticket. So it was just an ongoing licence to travel an infinite number of times (up to its expiry of course!). No balance issues, regardless of use. Understandably it was not transferable.
But the card in the OP's case was apparently a pay-as -you-go variant. So each journey would have just reduced any positive balance already loaded on it. Or - if exhausted - resulted in some sort of auto top-up from a feeder account. Either way, there would no loss to the TOC, regardless of who used it (assuming no age discounts were involved).

KeyGo works (on a customer facing level) very similar to how contactless does in London - it simply records barrier/validator touches, works out the cheapest valid fare(s), and charges the associated card.

The relevant difference is that, unlike an Oyster or contactless card, it cannot be transferred to, or used by, someone else. I do find this a rather strange condition - I would understand if it applied to KeyGo cards with a Railcard applied, or even if they said that you could not use it on the same day as someone else (though this would be unenforceable in reality). But it applies even if you are simply using public fares.

Unfortunately for the poster of the thread from which this discussion originated ,the fact that the condition is illogical does not negate the fact that they committed an offence. They are effectively reliant on either GTR withdrawing the case, or the Court finding them not guilty, or giving them an absolute discharge in recognition of the fact that it is effectively an insignificant administrative offence.

 

[E759]

Suspect the non-transfer [of KeyGo] is related to the continuous payment authority (CPA) on your debit/credit card account required for KeyGo.

Whilst a Railcard can be loaded onto KeyGo this is so the correct fare is calculated. You still have to carry the Railcard. If the KeyGo is transferred [to another person] and the new holder doesn't have a Railcard then they don't have a valid ticket.

 

[spag23]

Suspect the non-transfer [of KeyGo] is related to the continuous payment authority (CPA) on your debit/credit card account required for KeyGo.

Whilst a Railcard can be loaded onto KeyGo this is so the correct fare is calculated. You still have to carry the Railcard. If the KeyGo is transferred [to another person] and the new holder doesn't have a Railcard then they don't have a valid ticket.

I don't see how a CPA would in itself demand a non-transferability onto the KeyGo. The owner of the bank/credit card that actually kept funding the card would seem to be of no relevance to the TOC.
And in the original thread, the KeyGo lender had no sort of Railcard or discount. So the correct fare (albeit for a different person) was calculated, and duly charged. In fact the OP stated that he was in possession of a Railcard which he didn't use on this journey, and so had foregone a discount. ie far from fare avoidance, he had paid too much!

 

[Hadders]

Suspect the non-transfer [of KeyGo] is related to the continuous payment authority (CPA) on your debit/credit card account required for KeyGo.

Whilst a Railcard can be loaded onto KeyGo this is so the correct fare is calculated. You still have to carry the Railcard. If the KeyGo is transferred [to another person] and the new holder doesn't have a Railcard then they don't have a valid ticket.

A PAYG Oyster card with auto top-up enabled can be used by another person (as long as there is no railcard discount associated with it)

 

[paul1609]

A “smart card” can often do both. Which is why people have mentioned that the TfL cards, (ie Oyster) can be transferred but only when they only contain a pay as you go product, without a railcard discount. Anytime you add a season type product such as a weekly rail/tube travelcard they then become non-transferable.

So the exam question is why do the T&C for this TOC product, the “Key” smartcard, not work the same way…

I'd imagine that because Oyster you have a credit on the card that is used up by travel whereas with keygo the cost of your travel is debited to your bank account the next day?

 

[Alex365Dash]

I'd imagine that because Oyster you have a credit on the card that is used up by travel whereas with keygo the cost of your travel is debited to your bank account the next day?

But if you have auto top-up enabled on your Oyster card, then using either card can still cause money to be taken out of your bank account.

 

[spag23]

But if you have auto top-up enabled on your Oyster card, then using either card can still cause money to be taken out of your bank account.

Agreed. A fully registered card, whether set up for pre- or post- top up, guarantees the TOC get their money. So there's no real distinction between either type. And a credit card (on available routes) is exactly the same, as far as the TOC's revenue is concerned. Using the "wrong" card should be no issue for the TOC.

 

[paul1609]

But if you have auto top-up enabled on your Oyster card, then using either card can still cause money to be taken out of your bank account.

The maximum auto top on Oyster is what £40?, there are in its current form return anytime journeys on keygo over £90 and that's before its area is expanded. It would be like banks allowing multi user debit cards and picking up the losses. That's the difference.