GTR & LOROL disruption on 18-19 July 2016

[Class377/5]

It says at Forest Hill, has the hole reappeared?

It's a new hole and not linked to sewer like last time.

 

[infobleep]

Apparently it has. The 7.05 from Uckfield arrived at East Croydon 5 minutes early, great for those that want Croydon!, and is now off on the diversionary route.

Problem is the 15/20 minute delays builds up quickly in to an hour or more and we run out of trains by the peak hour service tonight. Hopefully Southern will learn from last time and cancel a few in the day to ensure hey can run a service this evening
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Into London Bridge only 5 minutes late. Can we have more sinkholes please?

 

[Antman]

There are further problems at Forest Hill this morning.

 

[Class377/5]

It's only Thameslink who are turning around thier London Bridge services at Gatwick to help reduce the congestion at Croydon.

 

[FOH]

It's annoying that you can't use tickets on Southeastern. That'd be easiest for me.

 

[ajb690]

It's annoying that you can't use tickets on Southeastern. That'd be easiest for me.

You can: http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/plan-your-journey/live-running-information/

To help you complete your journey as quickly as possible, Southern tickets are being accepted on the following alternative transport providers:
Thameslink services to and from London
London Underground across London
London Buses in the affected area
Tramlink between Beckenham Junction and Croydon stations
Southeastern between Beckenham Junction and London and Tunbridge Wells and London.

 

[infobleep]

It's only Thameslink who are turning around thier London Bridge services at Gatwick to help reduce the congestion at Croydon.

It seems they needed to terminate a few more early to ease congestion but then where do you stick all the passengers who have been terminated early, especially when during the day 300+ trains are removed from the timetable and in addition to that a few services are being cancelled due to driver or crew shortages and a few others during train fault or more trains requiring maintenance than usual.

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[FOH]

Ok cool, that ticket acceptance wasn't in place earlier, just London buses, underground and Thameslink

 

[Deepgreen]

It's a new hole and not linked to sewer like last time.

Does this perhaps point to the ex-Croydon Canal being a common factor, or is it pure coincidence, do people think? It seems to me like too many sub-p.way issues in this area to be just chance.

 

[physics34]

Need to do a major survey of the area before something serious happens

 

[blotred]

Out of interest, how can you even monitor for these sorts of things?
Does Network Rail have special.... sub-surface ground penetrating sensors/radars...? Which they can deploy on the back of a loco and run at low speed overnights....? </not a geologist>

 

[Bald Rick]

It was being monitored, by a bloke on site, when it happened.

 

[bengley]

Clearly there is an issue with ground stability in that area. Something may need to be done because I can't imagine these bodge jobs are doing Network Rail any long term favours

 

[SpacePhoenix]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/trav...inkhole-opens-up-in-forest-hill-a3311521.html

Shows the new hole doesn't look so bad. Are any of the NR MPVs or the Flying Banana equipped with ground penetrating radar?

 

[infobleep]

This problem isn't just affecting London Bridge, it's also affecting London Victoira. I'm on a Southampton service from Clapham Junction that is rammed. On the plus side it's only 12 minutes late, partly due to numbers boarding a busy train.

Other trains are 30+ minutes late.

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[Stew998]

This problem isn't just affecting London Bridge, it's also affecting London Victoira. I'm on a Southampton service from Clapham Junction that is rammed. On the plus side it's only 12 minutes late, partly due to numbers boarding a busy train.

Other trains are 30+ minutes late.

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Hopeless, as London Bridge a non-starter I caught a tube to Victoria and arrived at about 2025 and as usual the information about trains was next to non-existent.

Problem at Forest Hill plus a signalling fault at Littlehampton (or something similar on that line) and some other track/signal fault somewhere else - is the whole system disintegrating?

Reached East Croydon on an East Grinstead service and now on a Thameslink to Haywards Heath.

 

[infobleep]

The announcement about the Littlehampton portal of my train just said something like passengers for Littlehampton and stations on the line to Portsmouth, change at Haywards Heath for a train to Brighton.

What they didn't say was that the Littlehampton portion was now cancelled due to driver displacement. I guessed that myself but I travel regularly on trains.

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[BRblue]

The announcement about the Littlehampton portal of my train just said something like passengers for Littlehampton and stations on the line to Portsmouth, change at Haywards Heath for a train to Brighton.

What they didn't say was that the Littlehampton portion was now cancelled due to driver displacement. I guessed that myself but I travel regularly on trains.

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Cable fire caused total loss of signalling at Littlehampton, failed train and traction current isolation between Barnham and Bognor Regis both leading to major crew displacement.

 

[infobleep]

Cable fire caused total loss of signalling at Littlehampton, failed train and traction current isolation between Barnham and Bognor Regis both leading to major crew displacement.

Thanks for that. Perhaps that was the main reason for delays tonight, although this morning I was 10 minutes late into Clapham Junction so it was clearly a mix of everything.

Hopefully for they are able to complete repairs in time for tomorrow but if not then so be it. Rather be safe and delayed.

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[BRblue]

Thanks for that. Perhaps that was the main reason for delays tonight, although this morning I was 10 minutes late into Clapham Junction so it was clearly a mix of everything.

Hopefully for they are able to complete repairs in time for tomorrow but if not then so be it. Rather be safe and delayed.

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Both back up and running now... still plenty of residual delays though.

 

[infobleep]

Both back up and running now... still plenty of residual delays though.

Good to hear. Might be coaching stock issues tomorrow but at lest trains should run*

*expect for those cancelled due to train faults, more trains needing repairs at the same time than usual, drive shortages or crew shortages.

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[sarahj]

And another fun day. My pass TL to Gatwick terminated at Gatwick and my GTW-HRH-LBG train terminated at ECR. I was informed my 16.57 LBG to LIT train would start at VIC, so made my way there. No answer on the phones, and VIC knew nothing about my train. Trackers were saying it would now start at ECR, and with still no answers made my way there for a possible late 17.11 start. Got to ECR and train was noted as running, but delayed. Helped out in the platform office as train after train was canx to the coast (but not my 17.11). Still no answers. At 18.30 my train was officially canx, so made my way to Brighton and got there in time to work it back up to GTW, where after other delays and canx made it back to Brighton.

The issues at LIT caused trains to be diverted to Bognor, but then one train hit something on the track and got it's shoes ripped off, thus blocking the line from Barnham to Bognor. Result, the west coast ground to a halt. Nothing could get up to Vic and London, and many train that did run down were short formed. The train I got from Vic to ECR was a Vic to HGS train that should have had portions for Seaford, but was only 4 cars, rammed solid, and took a will of effort to get moving from Vic, and was even put on the slow lines until Balham.

Lit opened at 19.00
ECR to LBG 21.10 with a 20 TSR

So that went well.:roll:

 

[infobleep]

And another fun day. My pass TL to Gatwick terminated at Gatwick and my GTW-HRH-LBG train terminated at ECR. I was informed my 16.57 LBG to LIT train would start at VIC, so made my way there. No answer on the phones, and VIC knew nothing about my train. Trackers were saying it would now start at ECR, and with still no answers made my way there for a possible late 17.11 start. Got to ECR and train was noted as running, but delayed. Helped out in the platform office as train after train was canx to the coast (but not my 17.11). Still no answers. At 18.30 my train was officially canx, so made my way to Brighton and got there in time to work it back up to GTW, where after other delays and canx made it back to Brighton.

The issues at LIT caused trains to be diverted to Bognor, but then one train hit something on the track and got it's shoes ripped off, thus blocking the line from Barnham to Bognor. Result, the west coast ground to a halt. Nothing could get up to Vic and London, and many train that did run down were short formed. The train I got from Vic to ECR was a Vic to HGS train that should have had portions for Seaford, but was only 4 cars, rammed solid, and took a will of effort to get moving from Vic, and was even put on the slow lines until Balham.

Lit opened at 19.00
ECR to LBG 21.10 with a 20 TSR

So that went well.:roll:

Why did it take effort to move. Was that due to the weight of it?

Do you enjoy days like this, as it's not the usual run of the mill or would you rather the usual run of the mill every time?

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[sarahj]

Why did it take effort to move. Was that due to the weight of it?

Do you enjoy days like this, as it's not the usual run of the mill or would you rather the usual run of the mill every time?

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It took an effort of sheer will of the on train staff and passing conductor to get folks who don't want to make a decision to make one.

They can be interesting, but I like my trains on time and punters happy (or as happy as they can be). I think what makes it stressful is when folks moan at you for A giving the correct info and stuff you have no control over. eg. When I was helping out at ECR a punter asked me about trains to LIT. I told him (@ 18.00) how I was the conductor of the 17.11 which had not left yet, about the signalling issues there, how that was effecting all coastway services, perhaps best to head to Brighton. He said thanks, but then moaned at me that folks at CLJ needed to know this info. I apologised, but the issue is that since no-one was answering the phone, and that can get very frustrating, who could I tell.

 

[James Wake]

And another fun day. My pass TL to Gatwick terminated at Gatwick and my GTW-HRH-LBG train terminated at ECR. I was informed my 16.57 LBG to LIT train would start at VIC, so made my way there. No answer on the phones, and VIC knew nothing about my train. Trackers were saying it would now start at ECR, and with still no answers made my way there for a possible late 17.11 start. Got to ECR and train was noted as running, but delayed. Helped out in the platform office as train after train was canx to the coast (but not my 17.11). Still no answers. At 18.30 my train was officially canx, so made my way to Brighton and got there in time to work it back up to GTW, where after other delays and canx made it back to Brighton.

The issues at LIT caused trains to be diverted to Bognor, but then one train hit something on the track and got it's shoes ripped off, thus blocking the line from Barnham to Bognor. Result, the west coast ground to a halt. Nothing could get up to Vic and London, and many train that did run down were short formed. The train I got from Vic to ECR was a Vic to HGS train that should have had portions for Seaford, but was only 4 cars, rammed solid, and took a will of effort to get moving from Vic, and was even put on the slow lines until Balham.

Lit opened at 19.00
ECR to LBG 21.10 with a 20 TSR

So that went well.:roll:

I'd have been on the 1711 last night if it wouldn't have been delayed, I got to ECR at just before 1700 off a Caterham train (1645 from CLJ) as I couldn't board the 1642 to Crawley due to the overcrowding. I ended up on the 1704 Thameslink via Redhill which got stuck behind the Caterham I had just got off, and a late running Tattenham Corner. We could've got over to the fast line from platform 5, but as we didn't we ended up stuck behind the 1649 VIC-TBD stopper all the way from Purley to Gatwick. Net result 15 minute delay. Ended up bailing at Gatwick for a bus home to my part of Crawley as I would just miss one from Three Bridges.

 

[sarahj]

I'd have been on the 1711 last night if it wouldn't have been delayed, I got to ECR at just before 1700 off a Caterham train (1645 from CLJ) as I couldn't board the 1642 to Crawley due to the overcrowding. I ended up on the 1704 Thameslink via Redhill which got stuck behind the Caterham I had just got off, and a late running Tattenham Corner. We could've got over to the fast line from platform 5, but as we didn't we ended up stuck behind the 1649 VIC-TBD stopper all the way from Purley to Gatwick. Net result 15 minute delay. Ended up bailing at Gatwick for a bus home to my part of Crawley as I would just miss one from Three Bridges.

Don't aim for the 17.11 tonight, it's been cancelled.

 

[tsr]

Do you enjoy days like this, as it's not the usual run of the mill or would you rather the usual run of the mill every time?

Yesterday was anything but enjoyable for 99% of the staff on the ground, I can assure you. Sometimes planned blockades and suchlike can be interesting because, if they're well-executed, there is some satisfaction to moving people efficiently round a major, beneficial project; yesterday was caused by issues that were anything but beneficial, and the network once again descended into an irrevocable spiral of chaos around 1500 and didn't really recover, with a lot of issues caused by insufficient staff along various parts of the chain to relay and co-ordinate information. Those who did answer the phone couldn't act on the info, etc. etc. Too many problems for me to list on here, and too few that I'd be allowed to, anyway...

I had a fair bit to do with moving passengers in the area yesterday, and fortunately, once again, for the most part they were understanding - after all, it's hardly like a member of platform staff or traincrew could cause a sinkhole at Forest Hill at 0430, or blow up a cable at Littlehampton - but it's just horrible to see their expression of being resigned to yet another evening of disruption, and I really feel sorry for everyone.

 

[infobleep]

Yesterday was anything but enjoyable for 99% of the staff on the ground, I can assure you. Sometimes planned blockades and suchlike can be interesting because, if they're well-executed, there is some satisfaction to moving people efficiently round a major, beneficial project; yesterday was caused by issues that were anything but beneficial, and the network once again descended into an irrevocable spiral of chaos around 1500 and didn't really recover, with a lot of issues caused by insufficient staff along various parts of the chain to relay and co-ordinate information. Those who did answer the phone couldn't act on the info, etc. etc. Too many problems for me to list on here, and too few that I'd be allowed to, anyway...

I had a fair bit to do with moving passengers in the area yesterday, and fortunately, once again, for the most part they were understanding - after all, it's hardly like a member of platform staff or traincrew could cause a sinkhole at Forest Hill at 0430, or blow up a cable at Littlehampton - but it's just horrible to see their expression of being resigned to yet another evening of disruption, and I really feel sorry for everyone.

Fair enough. Sometimes I actually enjoy traveling in disruptions as you don't know what is going to happen but I'm not having to work during disruptions, such as helping people or dealing with signalling issues.

I can't stand it if my computer is running slowly or keeps crashing so I imagine if I worked during a disruption I might not be too happy.

I suspect Govia passengers are use to delays so are just thankful it's a day of disruption.

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It took an effort of sheer will of the on train staff and passing conductor to get folks who don't want to make a decision to make one.

They can be interesting, but I like my trains on time and punters happy (or as happy as they can be). I think what makes it stressful is when folks moan at you for A giving the correct info and stuff you have no control over. eg. When I was helping out at ECR a punter asked me about trains to LIT. I told him (@ 18.00) how I was the conductor of the 17.11 which had not left yet, about the signalling issues there, how that was effecting all coastway services, perhaps best to head to Brighton. He said thanks, but then moaned at me that folks at CLJ needed to know this info. I apologised, but the issue is that since no-one was answering the phone, and that can get very frustrating, who could I tell.

The problem during disruption is one of communication. I'm sure passengers are far more understanding when information is communicated, even if it's just a I don't know what is happening but I'll try and find out. Of course during disruption communication may fall due to so many people trying to run trains, they don't have time to communicate to others.

Of course situations develope quickly. You make a choice based on facts and then the facts change so your choice may be wrong.

Last night I had a choice, get the bus or walk. If I get the bus I might have an earlier train. Bus is meant to take 6 minutes and I have 9-10 minutes to make train. Train is rarely on time so I can add another 1-2 minutes on top. Walking takes 21 minutes so definitely won't make train.

I knew there were roadworks but they hadn't been an issue the other day in the morning. I took a chance and got the bus. Bus got held up in traffic. Missed train, which itself was 2 minutes late so I should have walked, as next train was not for another 13 minutes.

However had I made the train I'd have been very happy.

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Don't aim for the 17.11 tonight, it's been cancelled.

The 7.40 from Haywards Heath was cancelled again this morning. Not related to the sink hole issues though but signaling issues. You do have to feel for people on West coast line as aren't they the ones with a reduce service?

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