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Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by sauron2010, 20 Jan 2017.
need i say more.....:roll:
As we both know many good reasons why you can't.
It is fine people saying you should have 2 methods of payment in case the first doesn't work. But if you can only get a debit card and doesn't work you are automatically a criminal even though you can prove you have the means to pay. Do we really have to record attempts to purchase to prove the TOC that we tried?
Since it might be a little hard to see from all the way up there on that soapbox, I though I should point out that the choice that caused all of this was choosing to board a train without first buying a ticket.
No, you've already dug the hole deep enough.
Which they attempted to do.
I will leave it there as I am being as bad as the people that are say - the railway industry is always right. There are two sides to every story. If the really did attempt to evade knowing that the barriers are open at Peterborough they got what they deserve. If the railway didn't give them an option to pay then it is sad. Fine saying the station had a TVM. Was it working. Neither of us know.
Of note, the OP didn't attempt to purchase before boarding.
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You may have missed it, as the post was awaiting moderation:
I agree that TOCs (and GTR in particular) don't cover themselves in glory where revenue protection activities are concerned, but in this case the OP didn't attempt to pay before boarding.
No they didn't
Three, possibly four, TVMs I believe but the OP didn't see any of them.
i have no intention of this becoming a tug of war between pro train establishment and pro reform members, its the first time it happened to me and i just came here for advice, the forum members are very helpful and its a great asset for us the general public to have you guys around to help from your free time. i will post my draft settlement letter here tmrw for all to see and correct as they see fit, thank you again.
No I didn't. But yes in that case I can't say they were treated unfairly.
I can give an example of a station where the TVM is away from the ticket office and could be missed if not familiar with the station. But not relevant anymore.
I must admit if the railway shut the barriers then they couldn't have got to the train, but that doesn't excuse cutting it so fine they didn't have time to buy. However when stations have barriers and they are constantly left open, the serial abuser will take advantage.
Just for those of us not familiar with the station itself.
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Hmm... in light of the evidence posted, I think it's fair to say that the ticket machines aren't exactly hidden away.
Edit: And based on the station map, it would be pretty hard to see that the ticket office was empty without having an opportunity to use the machines.
Those sneaky railway people! Instead of placing the TVM right next to the door they've positioned it about one foot away where you could easily miss it if in a hurry. I call that entrapment.
From memory that map looks pretty accurate.
Never been to Huntington - however, the OP said they were going from Huntington to Peterborough, which departs from Platform 3. Platform 3 can be accessed from Car Park 2, which has a ticket machines but no booking office.
However, if they used the main station entrance, then there are three machines (2 outside, 1 inside) none of which are exactly inconspicuous.
Just observations based on the Station Map on National Rail site.
I noticed that, but the OP said that there was nobody in the ticket office. It doesn't appear to be possible to see the ticket office from Platform 3.
You would need x-ray binoculars to see the ticket office from platform 3, there's four tracks and a brick wall in the way so the OP presumably used the main entrance and crossed the bridge although they'd have to move quick if the train was already in the station.
Here's the TVM for platform 3
The OP chose not to buy a ticket before boarding from the prominent and perfectly good vending machine. Criminal offence right there, end of. There is no entitlement to a Penalty Fare.
This is my draft letter i propose to email to the prosecution dept, i would be grateful for members feedback and any changes, thanks.
In relation to the above referenced charge of boarding a train without a ticket. I would first of all like offer a unreserved apology for my foolish decision to board the train without a ticket, I recognise the error and feel deeply regretful of my actions on that day.
As a result of this process I have come to realise and understand the importance of revenue enforcement and how the industry loses £400 million a year due to fare evasion and that’s why there must be a ardent and robust policy towards this kind of unscrupulous activity. It is the first time I have had this experience and having now felt and appreciated the severe consequences you can rest assured it will be the last time.
I fully understand your motivation to take this to court however I implore you to reconsider, I have never been charged with any criminal offence before and would prefer to keep my record clean as it may affect my career prospects.
I hope we can come to a amicable agreement and would like to offer £220 for settlement of this case. I hope this goes some way to amend the loss of time and revenue I have caused to your company, I would see this a a personal favour if you did decide to accept this offer and I would be unimaginably grateful for your lenience towards me.
I would again like to express my deep regret regarding this incident and feel ashamed I caused this unfortunate situation to come about.
Thank your for your attention.
A couple of suggested changes:
My only problem is the section I've highlighted - is this the first time you boarded without a ticket, or the first time you got caught? The problem is that it reads like the latter. I wouldn't encourage you to lie. If you have been in the habit of buying on board then leave this out, if it's the first time you've done it then change it to say so.
I seldomly use the trains to be honest and is the first time I have boarded without a ticket, I will change it to reflect this, thanks
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Should I not write the exact amount of my offer in the letter? I was advised that by the person I spoke to at the prosecutions office, they said £200 was reasonable. Or do I wait for them to advise me on how much they want after I sent the letter. Thanks
Normally the advice is to avoid specifying an amount and let them make the offer. If you've already spoken with the prosecutions team then make reference to that in the letter. Something like
Will do, thank you so much for your time and effort.
Since they have already suggested an amount, you might consider attaching cheque (and of course referring to it in the letter). Hope you get a favourable response.
The thing is the Person on the phone didn't give any definitive sign it would be accepted or the amount, rather just said £200 was reasonable and to put offer in email. However I can see how adding the cheque would be of benefit, saying that do you think I should go down the email route as advised or with letter/cheque? Thanks
Again, if they advised that email is acceptable then I'm remiss to counter that advice.
i have now sent the amended letter via email an will keep you posted on the outcome(if any), thanks again
I have just received a email saying my offer has been accepted, have been given a telephone number to pay with debit card, thank you everyone who actually tried to be constructive and helpful rather than cynical, special thanks to NajaB.
Excellent news, glad to hear it. Just remember to buy before boarding in future.
Definitely a lesson learnt
Thanks for letting us know the outcome. Many informed posters keep tabs on the overall prosecutions landscape so it is very useful feedback.
Some may appear (and some may be) cynical, but as you will have noted some look for any reason they can find that no offence was committed at all. Cynicism tends to be bred by this.
Anyway, you got a satisfactory result and were ultimately helped by posting here. That's what is important.