GTR ticket office changes

[Mojo]

Just seen this on the RMT website. Can't find consultation details anywhere yet; but I remember when LM proposed similar changes they were posted on their website.

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-to-fight-ticket-office-carnage/

PROPOSED TICKET OFFICE CLOSURE FROM JUNE 2016
GSM London Bridge
Queens Road
Peckham
Selhust
Tulse Hill
Wandsworth Common
West Norwood
Streatham
Streatham Hill
Streatham Common
Gipsy Hill
GSM Victoria
Battersea Park
GSM East Croydon & Purley
Carshalton Beeches
South Croydon
GSM TL North
Cricklewood
GSM TL South
Loughborough Junction
Tooting
Denmark Hill
Great Northern
Alexandra Palace
Enfield Chase
New Barnet
Palmers Green

STATIONS WITH MAJOR CHANGES WITH PEAK HOURS OPENING ONLY
GSM East Croydon and Purley
Dorking
Leatherhead
Epsom
Ashtead
GSM Brighton
Burgess Hill
Hassocks
Merstham
Horley
GSM East Coastway
Eastbourne
Bexhill
Lewes
Polegate
Oxted
East Grinstead
GSM West Coastway
Chichester
Angmering
Worthing
Crawley
Littlehampton
Horsham
Portslade
Bognor Regis
Barnham
Hove
Chichester
GSM TL North
Leagrave
Flitwick
Harpenden
GSM GN North
Sandy
Hitchin
Kings Lynn
Huntingdon
Stevenage
St Neots
Letchworth
Royston
GSM GN South
Potters Bar
Hatfield
Welwyn Garden City
Hertford

STATIONS IN PHASE TWO NO TICKET OFFICE IN FUTURE but DATE NOT KNOWN YET FOR CLOSURE
GSM London Bridge
Norbury
Thornton Heath
Balham
GSM East Croydon and Purley
Caterham
Wallington
Carshalton
Purley
Sutton
Caterham
GSM Brighton
Coulsdon South
Reigate
GSM East Coastway
Sanderstead
Falmer
GSM West Coastway
Shoreham-By-Sea
Lancing
GSM TL North
Mill Hill Broadway
Radlett
Elstree
Luton Airport Parkway
GSM TL South
City Thameslink
West Hampstead
Great Northern
Hornsey
Gordon Hill
Winchmore Hill

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Looks like my sister is going to be buying her annual season ticket from London Overground soon then.

Utterly stupid idea. I imagine revenue loss at some of those stations will be higher than the money paid out to keep the office open.

 

[dquebec]

I assume this is something to do with "The Key" ITSO smartcard being rolled out?

Luton Airport Parkway is a shocker though, especially when EMT are calling there, but probably related to potential Oyster expansion?

What are you supposed to do if the ticket you want isn't available from the self serve machines?

 

[Quakkerillo]

What made them pick these stations for these closures? East Grinstead to close, but Upper Warlingham remains open on the same line, despite the latter seeing much lower usage?

 

[LowLevel]

Among others Huntingdon, Stevenage, Kings Lynn and Luton Airport all seem very dodgy changes to me.

 

[Greeby]

Now does anyone doubt the purpose of smartcards is to eradicate our profession?

 

[Sleepy]

I would be very worried if I worked in AGA smaller station ticket office likes of Rochford, Burnham on Crouch or Frinton on Sea. Bet the Dft have nice Smartcard plans for new franchise !

 

[Solent&Wessex]

At what point will the powers that be realise that not everyone can actually use a smartcard ticket, nor can they use a contactless card, nor can they use a ticket machine - as the ticket they require isn't available, or they are an irregular traveller or from a different area.

Absolutely bonkers.

 

[14sutton]

Press release has been issued, staff are moving front of house! All tide in with adding ticket gates to 21 extra stations.

www.thameslinkrailway.com/about-us/news/modernising-our-stations/

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Press release has been issued, staff are moving front of house! All tide in with adding ticket gates to 21 extra stations.

www.thameslinkrailway.com/about-us/news/modernising-our-stations/

Oh that's going to be really safe and secure - having staff wandering around the concourse or stations selling tickets from hand held machines. Looking at some of the stations proposed to adopt that approach I am glad I don't work there.

 

[Clip]

Now does anyone doubt the purpose of smartcards is to eradicate our profession?

Ive been saying this for a while but there have been some posters on ehre who have heralded the age of the smartcard as the solution to our complicated fares structure without a thought about the staff members jobs.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Press release has been issued, staff are moving front of house! All tide in with adding ticket gates to 21 extra stations.

www.thameslinkrailway.com/about-us/news/modernising-our-stations/

Oh, so if someone wants a reservation, a monthly/annual season or an Advance ticket, they either have to go to another station, buy online, or pop in at peak times. Genius.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Eastbourne peak only? I presume GTR management has never been down there on a weekend...

 

[rwebster]

I normally shudder when I read RMT scaremongering (so extreme it hurts the staff they claim to protect, IMO) but this lot of proposals is quite different and seems very drastic.

I wouldn't doubt that there are stations in the Oyster area where a more modern role for the ticket office couldn't hurt - and I think it's been seen that LU's ticket office closures haven't really had the detrimental impact that was feared, at least at the small and medium size stations.

But closing ticket offices (even for part of the day) at suburban stations in big towns with usage approaching 4-5 million per annum (e.g. Stevenage) is a bit of a shock. I work in Welwyn Garden City town centre, and frequently find myself 3 or 4 deep in a queue when I go and collect tickets using a rail warrant on a weekday lunchtime. Yes, there are old ladies buying day returns to Potters Bar who could be helped to use a TVM - but what about Railcards, warrants, advance bookings, rovers etc? Those are far more common transactions at a major 'town' station, and it's extremely naive for GTR to think that what works in Zone 2 will work out in the Home Counties.

 

[DelayRepay]

This is just about cost cutting, nothing more. These staff who are working as hosts will soon find themselves covering the barriers, doing security checks, maybe even dispatching trains after suitable training. Then these "host" roles will disappear as other staff leave.

Especially at some of the larger stations (Welwyn Garden City as mentioned above, for example), there is surely demand for a ticket office during the day, not just for issuing tickets but for giving out information, helping with lost property, and all the other "customer service" functions a ticket office can provide alongside actually selling tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This seems much, much bigger than the LM cutbacks which were simply to reduce hours at some ticket offices (some of which didn't happen) and closure of a very small number which barely justified their existence anyway (Cheddington, for example, has near enough no traffic at all other than season ticket holders).

Not having a ticket office *at all* at Luton Airport Parkway, for instance, seems strange.

Or is there some kind of hidden deal for EMT and VTEC to take over at some stations?

 

[sheff1]

Not having a ticket office *at all* at Luton Airport Parkway, for instance, seems strange.

According to the link, staff will still be available at Luton Airport Parkway to sell the full range of tickets from the first to the last train.

 

[Hadders]

Or is there some kind of hidden deal for EMT and VTEC to take over at some stations?

I doubt it as EMT only call at Luton Airport Parkway and VTEC at Stevenage.

Interestingly at Stevenage we could end up with the primary (Great Northern) ticket office being open for fewer hours than the secondary (VTEC) one!

 

[Sleepy]

No doubt some ticket office staff are on reasonable salary - If this doesn't work then in 12 months time new staff can be employed on inferior t & c on 1 shift per station basis. Why is TSSA union not jumping up and down about this ??

 

[philjo]

Hmm. Some of the GN ticket offices are busy throughout the day. In some cases there isn't much room in the concourse for staff- as the ticket office queue takes up most of the space!

Including Stevenage on the list is bizarre. However there is a separate VTEC office next door which might start to gain extra commission!

THere are still a lot of tickets that cannot be booked online or though the TVMs - in this area in particular tickets from boundary zones as lot of folks have travelcard seasons and also the Herts County council senior concessionary fares (half price within the county on showing a bus pass) - these all have to be bought at the ticket office. Plus selling seasons etc.
perhaps they want to make it difficult to use RTVs ??

 

[maniacmartin]

I'm not usually in agreement with RMT, but I agree that this sounds like a bad idea to me. It looks like GTR saw how London Underground got away with this and thought they can do the same.

To take one of my local stations, Purley, as an example, apparently 'More than 12 tickets are sold per hour at these stations but still the majority of customers use ticket machines and other ways to pay'. However, looking at what people put through the ticket barriers in the peak period, I'd say paper tickets and paper Gold cards are still a very sizable proportion. The ticket office has 2 windows and always had a queue whenever I've been there and it's actually been open. To quote from Southern To use the key, you’ll need to start journeys and buy tickets outside London. Until this is rectified, many people in Zone 6 places like Purley continue to buy cheaper paper point-to-point seasons instead of Travelcards. Imagine the queues at the excess fares counter at London Bridge around the turn of new year if people can't buy these from TVMs!

What's going to happen when someone wants to cash in an RTV, refund a ticket, get seat reservations, buy a railcard or buy a Gold card?
These 'handheld devices' which sound like Avantixes or similar will almost certainly vend tickets slower than a proper TIS with a full keyboard and big printer. I bet it won't do all the things I've listed above.

I suspect that some of the smaller stations may be retaining their traditional ticket offices as the buildings are so small there is no passenger circulating area where staff could otherwise be based.

 

[Kite159]

I'm not usually in agreement with RMT, but I agree that this sounds like a bad idea to me. It looks like GTR saw how London Underground got away with this and thought they can do the same.

To take one of my local stations, Purley, as an example, apparently 'More than 12 tickets are sold per hour at these stations but still the majority of customers use ticket machines and other ways to pay'. However, looking at what people put through the ticket barriers in the peak period, I'd say paper tickets and paper Gold cards are still a very sizable proportion. The ticket office has 2 windows and always had a queue whenever I've been there and it's actually been open. To quote from Southern To use the key, you’ll need to start journeys and buy tickets outside London. Until this is rectified, many people in Zone 6 places like Purley continue to buy cheaper paper point-to-point seasons instead of Travelcards. Imagine the queues at the excess fares counter at London Bridge around the turn of new year if people can't buy these from TVMs!

What's going to happen when someone wants to cash in an RTV, refund a ticket, get seat reservations, buy a railcard or buy a Gold card?
These 'handheld devices' which sound like Avantixes or similar will almost certainly vend tickets slower than a proper TIS with a full keyboard and big printer. I bet it won't do all the things I've listed above.

I suspect that some of the smaller stations may be retaining their traditional ticket offices as the buildings are so small there is no passenger circulating area where staff could otherwise be based.

I agree with you, first step will be the removal of the ticket office replaced by a member of staff floating around the station (so let's play find the member of staff and once they have finished dealing with Aunt Doris wanting to know which platform the 15:05 to London departs from, can sell you a ticket), then the removal of that member of staff so that the station is TVM only.

 

[Hadders]

There needs to be visibility of the revised opening hours where ticket office are remaining with reduced opening hours. We also need details of how many additional TVMs will be installed to mitigate the ticket office closures.

It does seem strange that Stevenage is on the list but not Luton or Bedford, despite higher passenger numbers.

Also worth pointing out that Stevenage is already manned from first to last train so moving the ticket office staff to front of house does not really give anything extra.

 

[Be3G]

I used Enfield Chase station's ticket office only a couple of weeks ago to purchase a railcard with the AGC discount. I wonder how I'm supposed to do that if ticket offices are closing?

 

[Loop & Link]

Sorry for the tangent but this is why I always tell my colleagues "We need to justify why we are here" a passenger should come to the ticket office and get any ticket or any necessary information and I always try to go above and beyond especially with long distance tickets. Nothing makes me feel worse when they say "I didn't know you could do long distance tickets, I usually go online"

It's so sad to see, and with Walrus smartcards coming into my neck of the woods, I hope my ticket office will still be open in years to come.

 

[bb21]

Negotiation tactics my friends, negotiation tactics.

Go in with a heavy bid and "compromise" on something they were originally planning on doing anyway. Both sides win at the end. The ones losing out will be ticket office staff and passengers.

I don't believe for one second all those stations would close. If RMT had balls then they would create havoc were any of these to close, although I fear some closures would be inevitable, ala London Underground.

 

[bicbasher]

I notice that two stations which are proposed for ticket office closure are on the London Overground SLL. Denmark Hill (TL) and Queen's Road Peckham (Southern) which for reasons only known to DaFT, stayed with their original TOC's rather than TfL.

Edit: Make that three. GTR's own documentation also includes Peckham Rye.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Epsom as peak only? Sutton to close completely?

For a start I often find when I go along to Epsom at lunchtimes or at the weekends there is quite a queue. Sutton I know is even busier.


This plan is madder than a stepped on rattlesnake.

 

[Starmill]

I can hear right now in my head the argument when the first person gets Penalty Fared for joining a train at a station without a ticket office because they could not find the roving member of staff from whom they're apparently expected to buy a ticket.

 

[Mojo]

I'm intrigued as to what this ticket selling equipment that will be relocated to the station hosting point is. Are they full blown ticket office machines that can provide all of the facilities of the ticket office?