GTR ticket office changes

[radamfi]

Three Bridges closed at 1340 again today, instead of the advertised 2215.

 

[Stow]

So the DfT, and therefore us, will lose out.

We taxpayers should not lose out, as GTR have a franchise measure on ticketless travel so need to manage this whatever the approach to ticket checking, and we should also benefit from a lower cost contract (assuming the approach to ticket offices was part of their bid to reduce cost of their bid).

Sign of things to come IMO

 

[infobleep]

Yes, I did think it funny that nobody at the paper seemed aware of the stations being manned from start to finish already, thus printing the Govia statement as great news.

I eagerly await the forthcoming software update for the ticket machines to do everything the current ticket office systems can do. Especially given there are two different systems that need updating, each with their own user interfaces and support structures...

Well just replace both systems with one and then only one needs updating.

 

[Sleepy]

Hmmm wouldn't put too much faith in ticketless travel surveys for dft - the TOC have ways to ensure minimal pax boarding trains without a ticket even at open stations as they are told when/where surveys will take place !! :-x

 

[infobleep]

GTR is a management contract franchise, with the DfT taking revenue risk.

So do the DfT care?

 

[Sleepy]

So do the DfT care?

No as long as the stats look good.

 

[Skimble19]

The ticketless travel surveys are a farce and totally inaccurate.. Largely because they seem to only take place during office hours!

Have I missed something or has Arlesey been missed from the GN stations affected?

Arlesey and Biggleswade are not affected at the moment, although I fully expect their hours to be reduced to peak only at some point in the franchise. (I have no evidence of this, it's just a hunch based on how things are going, so don't kill me if I'm wrong!)

 

[jon0844]

Well just replace both systems with one and then only one needs updating.

Two different manufacturers though. How long have I been saying that all TOCs should have a standard user interface? YEARS! I have always compared to Sky, who had multiple hardware vendors but each had to run the same Sky EPG software.

I guess it's like different PC vendors supporting Windows. In this case, the different TVMs may use Windows but each manufacturer offers its own software.

I've said how silly it is because not everyone is that into tech, and you learn one machine and then one day that's down so you use another and it looks totally different. Qwerty keyboard or Abcd? Options on the left, right, all on one screen with +/- boxes or a separate screen? Can you add more tickets to a basket or do you need to select, pay, collect, wait, select, pay, collect..?

Imagine if this forum ran vBulletin for some forums and phpBB for others. One forum, two different layouts, different shortcuts, logins, profiles...

I could go on... but I won't for now. But this is why I have somewhat little faith that if these changes happened this year, there's any chance of Govia being ready.

I suppose I could ask the obvious question. If London Midland already implemented such changes, do THEY have the necessary software upgrades in place and terminals for staff to do the ticket office stuff when standing on the concourse, gateline or platform?

 

[radamfi]

GTR is a management contract franchise, with the DfT taking revenue risk.

Maybe the DfT is actually behind this?

I wouldn't have thought there would be much impact on ticketless travel, because those who want to buy a ticket would buy a ticket at the machine and won't make any difference to those who currently walk past both a ticket office and machine. Obviously a lot of the time the ticket office is closed anyway.

 

[talldave]

How is someone walking around the station going to issue photocards and gold cards?

 

[Haywain]

Maybe the DfT is actually behind this?

Could be, but I doubt it. However, without knowing how the franchise is structured there is no way of knowing.

I wouldn't have thought there would be much impact on ticketless travel, because those who want to buy a ticket would buy a ticket at the machine and won't make any difference to those who currently walk past both a ticket office and machine. Obviously a lot of the time the ticket office is closed anyway.

I agree that the impact on ticketless travel is likely to be small, and what this may be is a means of extending staffed hours for ticket sales.

 

[jon0844]

How is someone walking around the station going to issue photocards and gold cards?

Direct people to King's Cross or another mainline terminus with a fully manned ticket office?

Even if that's not official policy, it's what staff will likely suggest politely 'as it will be quicker'. Eventually people will do that anyway, rather than seek out staff who will have other duties and might be occupied anyway.

And why isn't Govia doing something more sensible like investing in revenue staff to keep gatelines in operation until the last train of the day? Manned stations are one thing, but the revenue checks (at stations) still end hours before trains stop.

 

[Clip]

How is someone walking around the station going to issue photocards and gold cards?

Polaroid camera and some sticky tape and cardboard.

 

[talldave]

Polaroid camera and some sticky tape and cardboard.

It was the scissors I was worried about!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe the DfT is actually behind this?

Could be, and if we actually sorted out the ticketing system properly so it was simple enough I wouldn't object particularly. But the ticketing system is a mess, and is getting worse, not better.

 

[radamfi]

Just past the Three Bridges ticket office again, and it is due to close at 1340 again.

 

[jon0844]

Just past the Three Bridges ticket office again, and it is due to close at 1340 again.

Maybe they should make the last train run at 1340. Problem solved.

 

[Skimble19]

And why isn't Govia doing something more sensible like investing in revenue staff to keep gatelines in operation until the last train of the day? Manned stations are one thing, but the revenue checks (at stations) still end hours before trains stop.

They are that's why the remaining booking office staff are being merged with the gate line staff.. The plans submitted so far won't actually work for it but the negotiations are ongoing to make it to happen.

 

[infobleep]

Two different manufacturers though. How long have I been saying that all TOCs should have a standard user interface? YEARS! I have always compared to Sky, who had multiple hardware vendors but each had to run the same Sky EPG software.

I guess it's like different PC vendors supporting Windows. In this case, the different TVMs may use Windows but each manufacturer offers its own software.

I've said how silly it is because not everyone is that into tech, and you learn one machine and then one day that's down so you use another and it looks totally different. Qwerty keyboard or Abcd? Options on the left, right, all on one screen with +/- boxes or a separate screen? Can you add more tickets to a basket or do you need to select, pay, collect, wait, select, pay, collect..?

Imagine if this forum ran vBulletin for some forums and phpBB for others. One forum, two different layouts, different shortcuts, logins, profiles...

I could go on... but I won't for now. But this is why I have somewhat little faith that if these changes happened this year, there's any chance of Govia being ready.

I suppose I could ask the obvious question. If London Midland already implemented such changes, do THEY have the necessary software upgrades in place and terminals for staff to do the ticket office stuff when standing on the concourse, gateline or platform?

Well if you use Tapatalk, this forum already looks different. Even has a like option which can only be seen by Tapatalk users.

Even if they are two separate manufacturers, surely there is no law saying they must use both forever. They could always end a contract early if needs be.

The BBC handed back their Formula 1 contract early. Nit saying Govia would actually want to do this but they could.

 

[jon0844]

I do use Tapatalk, but that's a plug in so not quite the same thing. I get the point though.

If Govia decided to ditch machines from the 'other' supplier, depending on which one, who would pay for them to be replaced with the other?

I am not saying none of this can happen, but I'd like to be shown how it will.

 

[Skimble19]

The latest I have heard is that sadly the machines we are likely to receive are of the S&B type. I'm hoping this is incorrect though as they're worse for both passengers and staff.

 

[radamfi]

Three Bridges opened "late" yesterday, until 1930! Still much earlier than the advertised 2215.

 

[Skimble19]

Well the posters have gone up with details for individual stations on.. Unfortunately still full of the incredibly misleading wording that this will result in stations that are already 24/7 being staffed for longer (how you get longer than 24/7 I really don't know!)

 

[talldave]

Well the posters have gone up with details for individual stations on.. Unfortunately still full of the incredibly misleading wording that this will result in stations that are already 24/7 being staffed for longer (how you get longer than 24/7 I really don't know!)

They're obviously going to keep them open until 04.29, thus gaining over 31 extra hours a week

 

[JaJaWa]

The latest I have heard is that sadly the machines we are likely to receive are of the S&B type. I'm hoping this is incorrect though as they're worse for both passengers and staff.

The original Govia Thameslink (the one that took over from Network SouthEast!) put in Shere machines at Harpenden that offered GroupSave, multiple ticket purchase, etc. When First Capital Connect ran the franchise they added ticket barriers, and anyone making the usual Southbound journey from Harpenden could no longer access the Shere TVM, so they installed some S&B TVMs. These S&B TVMs do not offer GroupSave.

I asked why the S&B TVMs do not offer GroupSave and they told me it would be too advanced for a TVM, despite these being installed around 10 years after the Shere one!!!

 

[jon0844]

I see the posters confirm that Hatfield will have no ticket offices open on Saturday or Sunday.

I now travel in most Saturdays to Essex Road, and see the queues which are awful, even if Arsenal ISN'T playing at home. Mostly people just wanting to go in to London for a day out (and why not given super off peak tickets are good value).

I use the machine outside, but those that don't can easily miss a train. You can argue they should go earlier, but does anyone expect to queue for 5-10 minutes or more to get a ticket?

Imagine when you ONLY have the TVMs and a member of staff you'll have to track down with a handheld machine.


UPDATE: Latest from the RMT

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/mass-rail-ticket-office-closure-plan-across-the-south/

Mass rail ticket office closure plan across the South finally kicks off today in total chaos.

RAIL UNION RMT said today that the public consultation over plans to axe and downgrade 81 rail station ticket offices across the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchise appears to have finally kicked off today in total and utter chaos as the union steps up the fight over the threat to services, jobs and safety.

RMT is aware that posters have gone up in stations party to the consultation, with questions already being asked about the accuracy of Govia Thameslink’s information on what the local impact will be as the process rolls on , and with the consultation period being hacked back to the bare-bones 21 days in what the union says is a mad dash to bulldoze through the bodged and rushed proposals. RMT says that it has never seen such flawed and twisted approach to a Section 17 consultation as the drive for cuts and profits slices through any serious attempt to gauge public opinion.

RMT made it clear today that the union campaign will be stepped up as Govia Thameslink blunder on with their shambolic consultation. A postcard and social media campaign is ready to roll urging the public to engage in the%

 

[Skimble19]

I see the posters confirm that Hatfield will have no ticket offices open on Saturday or Sunday.

I now travel in most Saturdays to Essex Road, and see the queues which are awful, even if Arsenal ISN'T playing at home. Mostly people just wanting to go in to London for a day out (and why not given super off peak tickets are good value).

I use the machine outside, but those that don't can easily miss a train. You can argue they should go earlier, but does anyone expect to queue for 5-10 minutes or more to get a ticket?

Imagine when you ONLY have the TVMs and a member of staff you'll have to track down with a handheld machine.


UPDATE: Latest from the RMT

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/mass-rail-ticket-office-closure-plan-across-the-south/

Mass rail ticket office closure plan across the South finally kicks off today in total chaos.

RAIL UNION RMT said today that the public consultation over plans to axe and downgrade 81 rail station ticket offices across the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchise appears to have finally kicked off today in total and utter chaos as the union steps up the fight over the threat to services, jobs and safety.

RMT is aware that posters have gone up in stations party to the consultation, with questions already being asked about the accuracy of Govia Thameslink’s information on what the local impact will be as the process rolls on , and with the consultation period being hacked back to the bare-bones 21 days in what the union says is a mad dash to bulldoze through the bodged and rushed proposals. RMT says that it has never seen such flawed and twisted approach to a Section 17 consultation as the drive for cuts and profits slices through any serious attempt to gauge public opinion.

RMT made it clear today that the union campaign will be stepped up as Govia Thameslink blunder on with their shambolic consultation. A postcard and social media campaign is ready to roll urging the public to engage in the%

I wouldn't expect the person with the handheld machine to be able to help you, they'll be manning the gates half the time by the looks of things..

The whole plan is going from telling complete lies on posters to a total shambles.. The figures for staff numbers are wrong for a fair amount of stations, so shows the attention to detail

 

[b127222]

The proposed changes to restrict ticket office hours to Monday to Friday early mornings only, should make it interesting come season ticket renewal time at the end of December.

 

[Hadders]

Stevenage often has huge queues on Saturday's and Sunday's. I suspect it'll become chaotic at what is an inadequately small circulation area in the booking office now that barriers have been installed.

I suppose they will look to add another coffee shop in the vacated space to add to the 4 already at the station.

 

[philjo]

At least Stevenage also has the VTEC travel centre which I think is open at weekends so there would be one window available during the day - perhaps VTEC will open a second window as they will gain extra commission from the ticket sales!

The posters at Letchworth and Potters bar both say 06:30 to 10:30am for the proposed ticket office opening hours, Mon-fri only.
there is usually a long queue at letchworth on saturday mornings plus the season renewals/tickets for the next day are often purchased when passengers return home (or need their season reprinting as they get the 09 error so they don't open the barriers anymore)