Guardian article: XC's Head of Communications gives out incorrect information

[Butts]

I don't think XC are worse than other operators, look at some of Scotrails prices. Same issues splitting is cheaper and the don't offer APs from a majority of stations. Stirling / Edinburgh to Aberdeen fine as they are direct trains. Linlithgow - Aberdeen no AP exists and you must split at Edinburgh. I hope that the don't try and penalise anyone doing this if they miss the connection and the interchange time is valid. Even on XCs own patch you need to split at Nottingham for Lincoln to Cardiff simply because XC refuse to offer it in one ticket (luckily east coast do offer such an AP)

I can get an AP from Falkirk to Leuchars, a lot of those trains continue to Aberdeen are you sure you can't get an AP to Aberdeen ? If I am going from Falkirk to Leuchars on a non-advanced ticket I can go via Edinburgh or Stirling.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I wonder if there might be a misunderstanding here?

Actually, I think he may be correct with the example given, but I'm happy to be corrected. From Q4 from The Manual - Advanced Fares FAQ

That was exactly what you have described it to be. Its an example.
The basis for this and any other examples will be the underlying Law, Conditions, any local or Comapny Policy and of course a degree of Custom and Practice.

Which implies if they were both XC, (as in this case) you wouldn't be covered.

It is an error of logic to extrapolate from an example what the underlying principle implies. In this case, it would be wrong to extrapolate in reverse, from a specific example back to the underlying Law, Condition etc.

The facts remain unchanged by any examples picked to illustrate how Law is applied. And these are (the oft quoted) Condition 19 of the NRCoC, which actually states "You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire
journey and one . . . . " etc. There's nothing there to suggest that such journeys may or may not involve one or more Operator.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

The reason for the example being a second company having to allow onward travel even due to a delay on a separate, first, company, is because it's so obvious that a single company should do so as the delay is their own fault.

 

[Failed Unit]

I can get an AP from Falkirk to Leuchars, a lot of those trains continue to Aberdeen are you sure you can't get an AP to Aberdeen ? If I am going from Falkirk to Leuchars on a non-advanced ticket I can go via Edinburgh or Stirling.

I will take another look, but it is not even shown as out of quota.

 

[emorris]

Point taken.

 

[Crossover]

Just been reading the article and responses and I can only agree with what others have said...what a complete numpty!

Is it any wonder things are so bad when you have such high people offering completely buff and useless information?!

That said, I guess were he to answer honestly, then that would also put XC in a bad light as to why their fares were so high and why it should be necessary to split in order to get cheaper tickets

 

[bnm]

CrossCountry Trains are hosting an online 'Meet the Manager' session via their Facebook page on Monday 16th April between 5pm and 8pm.

Perfect chance to quiz them about Richard Gibson's misleading answers given to the guardian.

Meet the Manager on Facebook with CrossCountry

Do you have a burning question, a point to make or perhaps some praise for CrossCountry? Well now is the chance to air your views on the issues that matter.

Between 5pm and 8pm on Monday 16th April, Managing Director Andy Cooper and members of his management team will be LIVE on Facebook to answer your questions.

If you’re unable to join Andy and the team on Monday, then do post your questions here in advance and we’ll answer each one on Monday evening.

https://www.facebook.com/Crosscountrytrains

 

[Skymonster]

Hopefully XCs Director of Communications is being communicated to right now, by someone higher up the food chain in XC or ATOC thaN he is!

Andy

 

[MarkyMarkD]

Doesn't the Guardian have an "errors and omissions" section, and shouldn't we be taking the opportunity to get them to print a correction to the garbage XC have propogated in their previous article? I am sure that Yorkie could do a very effective one based on his analysis of the original article.

 

[ex-railwayman]

Looking at Richard Gibson's railway career, he was Comm's Manager for Wessex Trains from 2001 – 2006, and now XC Comm's Manager up to the present day in 2012, so, in 11 years how many incoherent telephone interviews has he given to the press & media, and why hasn't he learnt the various ticketing systems, by now, as this is probably one the most asked about questions from customers???

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

 

[CC 72100]

Just read the article myself, he really doesn't do XC any favours at all!

Of course passangers don't want to save money, of course it is a waste of time explaining how ticketing works, we don't really want to know that do we?!

I don't think public opinion (or at least among some of us on here) is particularly high, this hardly does much to rectify that, merely just continues to dig a bit of a hole for themselves!

 

[emorris]

I also fear that many people will see this as a reflection on the rail industry in general, rather than CrossCountry in particular.

 

[Squaddie]

Doesn't the Guardian have an "errors and omissions" section, and shouldn't we be taking the opportunity to get them to print a correction to the garbage XC have propogated in their previous article? I am sure that Yorkie could do a very effective one based on his analysis of the original article.

The Errors and Omissions section is for correcting errors made by the Guardian's own journalists and writers, not for lies told by interviewees.

Talking of the Guardian, the following priceless paragraph appears in today's online edition.

[Britain's railways are] more over-priced and ineptly run than under British Rail but with the added irritation of each line having a different logo and platitudinous slogan plastered all over the filthy, outdated, sluggish rolling stock – a desecration more indecent than the filthiest graffito. First Great Western is the most infuriating because it both makes the spurious claim of being first and deliberately echoes the name of the company which actually was first in that region: the Great Western Railway, Brunel's firm which built the line. Companies like First Great Western are so far from making that kind of contribution to the transport network that they can't even understand how offensive it is to make the comparison. It's like an illiterate Anglo-Saxon chieftain using a derelict Roman temple as a shelter for sh*tting and then crowning himself emperor in honour of the achievement.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I think the 'interview' has been staged or edited, it just doesn't read right to me. It looks like Richard Gibson brings up the St Austell-Birmingham-Macclesfield fares up, but then the interviewer quotes the prices as if they knew them all by heart. Sure XC don't come across well, but I'd be really surprised if that is the whole unedited interview.

 

[BrownE]

Any volunteers to send some letters to relevant organisations, requesting some 'clarification'? Please PM me if you can assist

Huge own goal by Richard Gibson, and some serious questions need to be asked. Any volunteers?

I don't seem to be able to PM you Yorkie.

 

[CC 72100]

I don't seem to be able to PM you Yorkie.

I've got a feeling you've got to make 5 posts before you can PM people, although don't quote me on this as I can't remember where I read it exactly!

 

[MikeWh]

I don't seem to be able to PM you Yorkie.

Make one more post then wait a short while for a system job to notice and you will be changed from a New Member to a Member and will be able to send and receive PMs.

 

[Ferret]

I think the 'interview' has been staged or edited, it just doesn't read right to me. It looks like Richard Gibson brings up the St Austell-Birmingham-Macclesfield fares up, but then the interviewer quotes the prices as if they knew them all by heart. Sure XC don't come across well, but I'd be really surprised if that is the whole unedited interview.

What, you mean the Guardian would dare to misrepresent or put a spin on an article? Surely not! Somebody boarded my train with a copy of the rag in their hand yesterday - the headline on the front page was about illegal immigrants being 'bullied' by employees of a private security firm while in the process of being deported. Right up their average reader's street I am sure, but the rest of the population couldn't give a toss.

 

[mralexn]

Given that East Coast and FGW do have an arrangement where it is possible to buy a combined GW+EC advance ticket from the SW to NE. I'm not sure his argument about multiple TOCs holds water.

I've noticed XC advances are both rare and poor value. IE the XC Advance Exeter to Bristol (x2 for out and back) is about the same price as the FGW set all operator Off Peak return!

Whenever I looked at SW to Scotland their advance fares compared very badly with Easyjet (even factoring fuel and parking getting to Bristol Airport!)

I've just tried Exeter to Glasgow for the 30th April return the following day - XC is £168 Standard Advance! Easyjet from Bristol is £87.98 (including Card Fee) (factor in £15 fuel to Bristol and £24 parking brings the total to £126)

Midweek in June (Out 13th back 14th) gives XC Advance: £168 - Flybe (Economy EXT-GLA): £116 and Easyjet (Standard BRS to GLA): £56.98 interestingly Easyjet Flexible (a near walk up ticket with everything included) is £190.

you mention flying, but if you are going from exeter it would be even cheaper to go to Paddington / Waterloo and then from Euston to Glasgow, would probably cost you no more than £50 each way

Also XC First Advances are a JOKE!!
I was looking at doing Plymouth To Aberdeen on the 0925 service one day in June, and its pretty much £507!! even if booked 2 months in advance, this is on the Direct 0925 PLY - ABD service

Considering you could go Via London in First Class, and get meals included with East Coast, and that would set you back about £120

 

[Ivo]

I appreciate the fact that they asked women as well as men, which is encouraging. They appear just as arrogant however.

Anyhow, a selection of notes on this Gibson character...



RG: I think the fare of £147.50, at less than 50p per mile, is a fair price for the 300-mile journey.

I make it approximately 46p per mile. No wonder students in this country are so poor :roll:

RG: I have no idea what an ideal world would look like, I'm afraid.

An ideal world is whatever one believes it to be. Thus, anyone could describe one, with a bit of thought. In other words, does this guy have an IQ of 50?

RG: I tell you what, I will pass your suggestion on to the revenue team and the commercial director to see if they are able to do anything with it.

Sure you will :roll: A very arrogant statement.



This attitude is normal for Arriva companies. As are poor maintenance, poor timekeeping, poor reliability, poor... you get the idea.

 

[starrymarkb]

RG: I think the fare of £147.50, at less than 50p per mile, is a fair price for the 300-mile journey.

I make it approximately 46p per mile. No wonder students in this country are so poor :roll:

I think you'll find he's rounded up. And to be fair 46p is less than 50p per mile...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

you mention flying, but if you are going from exeter it would be even cheaper to go to Paddington / Waterloo and then from Euston to Glasgow, would probably cost you no more than £50 each way

Also XC First Advances are a JOKE!!
I was looking at doing Plymouth To Aberdeen on the 0925 service one day in June, and its pretty much £507!! even if booked 2 months in advance, this is on the Direct 0925 PLY - ABD service

Considering you could go Via London in First Class, and get meals included with East Coast, and that would set you back about £120

Would you have to split tickets to get that?

 

[Ferret]

507 for an advance ticket from Plymouth-Aberdeen? I don't think so.

 

[All Line Rover]

507 for an advance ticket from Plymouth-Aberdeen? I don't think so.

A First Class tickets on the [09:05] direct service from Plymouth to Aberdeen costs £501. This is for an Anytime single, as there are no First Advance tickets available.

 

[Failed Unit]

A First Class tickets on the [09:05] direct service from Plymouth to Aberdeen costs £501. This is for an Anytime single, as there are no First Advance tickets available.

The APs would between £117.50 and £331 if the quota was on offer. Interesting on the walk up fare. £360 via London and £501 via Bristol. Who would pay £141 extra for a voyager, you could get a taxi across London with the savings and buy a full meal if you don't trust east coast!

 

[Butts]

The APs would between £117.50 and £331 if the quota was on offer. Interesting on the walk up fare. £360 via London and £501 via Bristol. Who would pay £141 extra for a voyager, you could get a taxi across London with the savings and buy a full meal if you don't trust east coast!

Why not let the plane take the strain - just checked flights available to Aberdeen from Exeter or Newquay for less than a ton in June. Even changing aircraft it is far quicker and cheaper

 

[Failed Unit]

Why not let the plane take the strain - just checked flights available to Aberdeen from Exeter or Newquay for less than a ton in June. Even changing aircraft it is far quicker and cheaper

I don't think anyone would look at the train as the first option for this journey unless they really enjoy rail travel. (or hate flying)

Interesting on this route, you need to put into the search engine via London to get the cheapest fares and have at least 90 minutes to cross London. The quickest route is change Birmingham but you still get robbed by XC because the ticket is via Bristol. Standard of course is more reasonable and may undercut air on price once, baggage, oxygen charges etc are factored in. Espcailly if railcards are involved.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Also XC First Advances are a JOKE!!
I was looking at doing Plymouth To Aberdeen on the 0925 service one day in June, and its pretty much £507!! even if booked 2 months in advance, this is on the Direct 0925 PLY - ABD service

There are Advance tickets available in June for the XC service dep PLY at 09:25 arr ABD at 20:45 for £87 and for £107.

Advance Tickets at the same price are available for the return journey.

 

[jopsuk]

Given that East Coast and FGW do have an arrangement where it is possible to buy a combined GW+EC advance ticket from the SW to NE. I'm not sure his argument about multiple TOCs holds water.

I bought a ticket yesterday, a walk-up one mind you, that was routed "Southern + AGA"- Portsmouth to Cambridge, using Southern to Victoria and Greater Anglia from Liverpool Street. Costs about 2/3 of the "any permitted".

 

[Butts]

There are Advance tickets available in June for the XC service dep PLY at 09:25 arr ABD at 20:45 for £87 and for £107.
Tickets at the same price are available for the return journey.

I take it those are second class - nearly 12 hours -no thanks

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I take it those are second class - nearly 12 hours -no thanks

Yes, (or as some of us quaintly refer to it, "Standard Class").
No, I wouldn't either, but a difference between £507 and £107 was worth noting. First Advances are priced at between £117.50 and £331.00 though I didn't see any availablilty on the date I looked at.
Anyway, you wouldn't have to sit in a noisy, cramped and uncomfortable seat for all that time! You could stand.