Guildford via Woking stoppers. Why were they cut back to Woking?

[adc82140]

Up until the late 90s there were half hourly Waterloo to Guildford via Woking stoppers using class 455s. With the construction of the up facing bay at Woking, these were cut back to become Waterloo to Woking stoppers. What was the thinking behind this? It was quite an infrastructure investment at Woking to allow for it.

 

[30907]

Terminating them at Woking relieves Woking Jn as well as economising on (largely empty) mileage.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Terminating them at Woking relieves Woking Jn as well as economising on (largely empty) mileage.

Reduces congestion at Guildford as well.

 

[adc82140]

Ah yes, I hadn't considered Woking Junction. I believe that there was an abandoned plan to grade separate this. Was the Woking bay the "consolation prize"?

 

[Helvellyn]

Ah yes, I hadn't considered Woking Junction. I believe that there was an abandoned plan to grade separate this. Was the Woking bay the "consolation prize"?

I don't think it was a consolation prize but it will have helped in unlocking capacity ahead of the 2004 complete timetable re-write by removing two services having to cross both Down lines and the Up Fast every hour, albeit with moves from/to the Slows across the Fasts to enter/exit the new Bay (but less disruptive to accommodate).

 

[30907]

I don't think it was a consolation prize but it will have helped in unlocking capacity ahead of the 2004 complete timetable re-write by removing two services having to cross both Down lines and the Up Fast every hour, albeit with moves from/to the Slows across the Fasts to enter/exit the new Bay (but less disruptive to accommodate).

It's also 12-car capacity IIRC , which the old Up Bay wasn't.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

which the old Up Bay wasn't.

The old one was only 6 car capacity and of course no direct access in to it, from London end Down lines, so not of much use in later years. Never recall seeing anything in there myself, although it must have seen some use perhaps during engineering works or the like? The Down Bay although also only 6 car capacity, does have its uses as it can be accessed by shuttle services from Guildford running UP via the Down Slow from Woking Junction.

The ironic compromise in relation to the newer London end centrally positioned platform 3 bay, was the loss of two of three stabling sidings at the London end in order that the Down lines could be slewed across to make way for the new bay & platform. Roll forward to 2014 etc (10 car plan) and additional electrified capacity had to be established in the Up yard!

 

[Route115?]

The Portsmouth Direct service was increased to 4 tph (although one was quickly cut back to Haslemere) providing close to a 15 minute service between Guildford & Woking. Sadly it was reduced to 3 tph after covid.

 

[Meerkat]

The Portsmouth Direct service was increased to 4 tph (although one was quickly cut back to Haslemere) providing close to a 15 minute service between Guildford & Woking. Sadly it was reduced to 3 tph after covid.

Could do with a Woking - Guildford (or Haslemere) shuttle to fill in the gaps, which can be annoying (particularly when connecting).

 

[nw1]

It was a little more complicated than that. In 1997 there were effectively four stoppers per hour, the two Woking stoppers operated by 455s and terminating in Platform 3. There were, however, also two Guildford (1tph) or Haslemere (1tph) stoppers which skipped Esher, Hersham and Byfleet and New Haw and were operated largely by VEPs (one of the three Haslemere diagrams was CIG-operated). These had a clockface 15-min interval out of Waterloo (09 and 39 to Woking, 24 to Haslemere, 54 to Guildford).

So perhaps one reason behind the opening of P3 was to improve the frequency of local stopping services to Woking, allowing 2tph to terminate there along with 2tph still running to Guildford.

This was retained in 1999 under the recast though the two Guildford stoppers both terminated at Guildford, due to 4tph fast to Guildford all continuing south thereof. They also now called at all stations Surbiton to Woking, giving all stations on this stretch 4tph off-peak. These were still VEPs. The pattern was retained until September 2003 when the Guildford terminators disappeared, leaving most local stations on the Surbiton-Woking stretch with 2tph again (though one Alton per hour called at West Byfleet to compensate).

Thus the 1999-2003 period had 6tph between Woking and Guildford for a time. I actually thought that 1999 timetable was really quite ingenious, more impressive in fact than the 2004 timetable in terms of tph. The only critique I would have of the 1999 timetable was the odd and inconsistent calling patterns south of Guildford - some stations had two trains in 15 mins then nothing for another 45 - and the attempt to run all 4tph to Portsmouth (terminating one at Haslemere and making the calling patterns more consistent from the outset would have made more sense).

Could do with a Woking - Guildford (or Haslemere) shuttle to fill in the gaps, which can be annoying (particularly when connecting).

The Portsmouth Direct could do with a recast I think, rather than the current rather strange "pre-Covid-with-holes" timetable.
I wonder whether they could return to earlier 80s/90s patterns and have one fast, one semi-fast (Farncombe, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, PSS, PH), a stopper to PH which is looped at Guildford to allow the fast to overtake, and a fourth train which terminates at Guildford. The latter two could perhaps take over the Walton, Weybridge and West Byfleet calls from Basingstokes and Altons, speeding up the latter.