Gunman wounds 3 on THALYS service in Northern France (BBC)

Discussion in 'International Transport' started by 61653 HTAFC, 21 Aug 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

    Messages:
    10,885
    Joined:
    18 Dec 2012
    Location:
    Another planet...
    Direct link here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34023361

     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    9,323
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    Moroccan man known to anti-terror police, was carrying a Kalashnikov, knife and a automatic pistol.

    The low casualties figure kinda indicates why its a bad idea to attempt a shooting spree in a confined space (e.g train) where you can be easily overpowered.
     
  4. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

    Messages:
    10,594
    Joined:
    8 Apr 2010
    Location:
    Epsom
    It probably also helped greatly that two off duty US Marines were walking past the toilet at the right time to hear and recognise the sounds of the weapons being made ready.

    If it had been anyone else walking past, would they have recognised the sounds? Unlikely, wouldn't you agree?
     
  5. Quakkerillo

    Quakkerillo Member

    Messages:
    538
    Joined:
    23 Jan 2015
    I would have noticed strange sounds coming from the toilet, but that might as well have been someone having issues with the toilet equipment, some medical things, or other plastic (bit of a loose toilet seat cover). And that's it.


    The half of the Thalys coming from Amsterdam was able to depart again from Arras to Paris, albeit delayed. The front half in which the incident occurred, which came from Brussels South-Midi (where the gunman boarded), remained in Arras with its passengers detrained there.
     
  6. Chew Chew

    Chew Chew Member

    Messages:
    454
    Joined:
    29 Aug 2010
    I don't usually go in for conspiracy theories but how convenient it is that these two off duty Marines just happen to be on that train and walking past the particular toilet at exactly the same time as someone who is known to anti-terror police is in there loading weapons?
     
    Last edited: 22 Aug 2015
  7. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    9,323
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    And were close enough overhear and to jump him when he emerged but not close enough to intercept him before he had begun firing into a carriage and to empty a Kalashnikov and then switch to a pistol. I know, some of the details do sound like they had been tailing him.
     
    Last edited: 22 Aug 2015
  8. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

    Messages:
    6,736
    Joined:
    6 Feb 2011
    Nutters, everywhere. And they seem to be spreading at a concerning rate...
     
  9. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

    Messages:
    7,613
    Joined:
    13 May 2014
    Location:
    St Albans
    Is that an expert view?
     
  10. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

    Messages:
    3,134
    Joined:
    27 May 2012
    I presume there are no security checks on Thalys and its just like boarding any domestic SNCB service?
     
  11. Tim R-T-C

    Tim R-T-C Established Member

    Messages:
    2,140
    Joined:
    23 May 2011
    How often do French police talk to the US Marines?

    Why would the French not want one of their people to save the day and get credit?

    I think it is remarkable luck and very fortunate. Were he able to open fire he could doubtlessly have killed a number of people even in an enclosed space since there would be few places for people to hide.
     
  12. 47802

    47802 On Moderation

    Messages:
    3,455
    Joined:
    8 Oct 2013
    Yes its a very worrying development, if perhaps not entirely unexpected by many people.
     
  13. WestCoast

    WestCoast Established Member

    Messages:
    5,350
    Joined:
    19 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Glasgow
    I think it is most likely a remarkable coincidence and one that has for sure saved lives. I have come across off-duty US Servicemen travelling on trains between European cities for leisure quite a number of times, it seems a popular thing to do.

    I'd also agree it is part of a worrying trend and a reminder that the threat, especially from "lone wolf" attackers, never goes away.
     
  14. Quakkerillo

    Quakkerillo Member

    Messages:
    538
    Joined:
    23 Jan 2015
    The new story changed a bit, making it less suspicious about US soldier presence.

    The two US soldiers , a US student friend traveling with them, and a UK businessman were all sitting in Premier (First Class), when suddenly the train guard in a state of horror ran past, just after the first shot.
    The two US soldiers then saw the guy with the Kalashnikov walk in, and immediately ran towards him, jumped onto him and tried to fight him.
    Their student friend also joined in, and they managed to disarm the man.

    When the UK businessman joined in, and they tried to tie him up, the gunman managed to pull out a gun and severely wound one of the US soldiers, but they managed to overpower him eventually.


    Source: Dutch NOS, with information coming from witnesses and a press conference.
     
  15. meridian2

    meridian2 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,186
    Joined:
    2 Nov 2013
    Oh yes, I forget,he didn't quote a 'reputable academic journal with overwhelming empirical evidence'.

    It's called an opinion, get used to yet and stop being unrealistic expecting everyone who opines on here to have an 'expert view'. :roll:
     
  16. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    46,853
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    Just watch someone use this as an excuse to bring in airport style security on more train services...
     
  17. Hornet

    Hornet Member

    Messages:
    720
    Joined:
    16 Jul 2013
    Pointless. The IRA showed other Terrorists the way to go back in 1994 when it came to attacks on fully laden aircraft.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/i...terrorism-act-renewed-in-commons-1428076.html

    Can't imagine scanners and security being put in place at Berney Arms!

    A strategically placed lorry bomb placed under any under bridge, or a lone gunman on Bruton Station spraying a passing West Country HST with automatic fire is not beyond the realms of possibility really.
     
    Last edited: 22 Aug 2015
  18. Kentish Paul

    Kentish Paul Member

    Messages:
    454
    Joined:
    25 Apr 2012
    Location:
    Ashford Kent
    An update. Both US servicemen were off duty.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34023361

     
  19. reb0118

    reb0118 Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    2,834
    Joined:
    28 Jan 2010
    Location:
    Bo'ness, West Lothian
    Maybe not, but it does not stop it being true. Maybe we have always had these nutters with us but in the past they were far away - it is a cliché but the world is a much smaller place today.
     
  20. Quakkerillo

    Quakkerillo Member

    Messages:
    538
    Joined:
    23 Jan 2015
    Which won't happen.

    (1) It's just too costly for such cheap tickets, and stations would have to be rebuilt.
    (2) Many of these (international) high-speed trains run frequent, at some stretches every 10-15 minutes, making checks take very long.
    (3) There are many commuters also using these services, especially Brussels-Paris, as Brussels is cheaper to live in than Paris, and the train to Paris takes less time than a suburban Parisian train into town. And they won't want a daily security check.
    (4) You can't use a train as a bomb, like you can use a plane to fly into something. You can just explode/shoot locally, and then they'd just blow themselves up in the queue for the security check, which will be busy.

    So the person who would go and suggest this knows nothing about the type of service/users.
     
  21. fowler9

    fowler9 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,365
    Joined:
    29 Oct 2013
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Good on the chaps who overpowered this person. At the same time, regarding what someone said earlier in the thread I suspect that you really don't have to be in the armed forces to recognise the sound of a gun being cocked. Further to this the vast majority of people in the forces have little to do with guns. I say this as someone who works directly with the UK armed forces. I personally feel no more under threat than at any point in my 40 years, in fact I possibly feel less under threat. The press wouldn't like that.
     
  22. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    24,389
    Joined:
    1 Feb 2009
    Location:
    UK
    The BBC article suggests the train crew ran off and locked themselves away from the passengers, leaving them to fend for themselves.

    Does anyone know the reality? It sounds very anti rail, and people are bound to jump to conclusions from the way it is being reported or may be reported elsewhere.
     
  23. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

    Messages:
    6,736
    Joined:
    6 Feb 2011
    As opposed to charging at a lunatic disacharging an automatic firearm....?!

    I would expect anybody, staff or otherwise, to leave the area as quickly as possible if they were able to do so. There is very little that most people can do in that situation other than be killed very quickly. There is a current/recent railway industry safety DVD which specifically deals with this situation, known as an 'active shooter'. The advice is most definitely not to attempt to tackle the aggressor.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Nope. Do feel free to share with us an alternative view should you have one?
     
  24. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    Not sure why anyone would take issue with that. If your life is at danger humans will take action to save themselves. Rail staff are trained at dealing with rail emergencies, not disarming gunmen or sheltering passengers from machine gun fire.
     
  25. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,534
    Joined:
    23 Jan 2012
    The way I see it is that in such a situation, there is nothing that rail staff can do compared to passengers. At this stage everyone is human; some humans may decide to act, some humans may decide to flee. Whether they wear a uniform or not is made irrelevant by the nature of the situation.

    (This post was backing up what A-driver was saying with my own personal view)
     
    Last edited: 22 Aug 2015
  26. fowler9

    fowler9 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,365
    Joined:
    29 Oct 2013
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Blimey, never even thought about that, why he hell should railway workers be expected to intervene with armed gunmen.
     
  27. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    24,389
    Joined:
    1 Feb 2009
    Location:
    UK
    But the way the story is (was?) written suggested they left passengers to fend for themselves. Right or wrong it sounds bad doesn't it?
     
  28. fowler9

    fowler9 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,365
    Joined:
    29 Oct 2013
    Location:
    Liverpool
    I'd wait until you are shot at whilst working in Tesco or wherever before you cast judgement to be honest.

    Yeah if it was me I would have asked them what they were thinking and smacked them in the face!
     
  29. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    24,389
    Joined:
    1 Feb 2009
    Location:
    UK
    I was taking about how the story was written, and how it would reflect badly on the crew.

    Don't shoot the messenger.

    I felt it was, justifiably, bigging up the people that took action and saved the day, while making it sound like the crew were abandoning ship to leave everyone to die.
     
  30. fowler9

    fowler9 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,365
    Joined:
    29 Oct 2013
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Yeah sorry mate, wasn't aimed at you. Stuff doesn't always come across correctly on the old digital media. :D
     
  31. TheKnightWho

    TheKnightWho Established Member

    Messages:
    3,185
    Joined:
    17 Oct 2012
    Location:
    Oxford
    I think the constant information barrage isn't helping. We're in the greatest period of peace ever by all sensible estimates, and yet the constant media coverage of literally everything going on in the world makes many think it's all falling apart. It's not long ago that we'd simply never have heard 3/4 of what we do now - including major incidents such as shootings, terror attacks and the like - because it would be tucked away on page 28 of one paper rather than broadcast everywhere along with the hundreds of other news items we all consume daily nowadays.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page