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Discussion in 'International Transport' started by 61653 HTAFC, 21 Aug 2015.
Direct link here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34023361
Moroccan man known to anti-terror police, was carrying a Kalashnikov, knife and a automatic pistol.
The low casualties figure kinda indicates why its a bad idea to attempt a shooting spree in a confined space (e.g train) where you can be easily overpowered.
It probably also helped greatly that two off duty US Marines were walking past the toilet at the right time to hear and recognise the sounds of the weapons being made ready.
If it had been anyone else walking past, would they have recognised the sounds? Unlikely, wouldn't you agree?
I would have noticed strange sounds coming from the toilet, but that might as well have been someone having issues with the toilet equipment, some medical things, or other plastic (bit of a loose toilet seat cover). And that's it.
The half of the Thalys coming from Amsterdam was able to depart again from Arras to Paris, albeit delayed. The front half in which the incident occurred, which came from Brussels South-Midi (where the gunman boarded), remained in Arras with its passengers detrained there.
I don't usually go in for conspiracy theories but how convenient it is that these two off duty Marines just happen to be on that train and walking past the particular toilet at exactly the same time as someone who is known to anti-terror police is in there loading weapons?
And were close enough overhear and to jump him when he emerged but not close enough to intercept him before he had begun firing into a carriage and to empty a Kalashnikov and then switch to a pistol. I know, some of the details do sound like they had been tailing him.
Nutters, everywhere. And they seem to be spreading at a concerning rate...
Is that an expert view?
I presume there are no security checks on Thalys and its just like boarding any domestic SNCB service?
How often do French police talk to the US Marines?
Why would the French not want one of their people to save the day and get credit?
I think it is remarkable luck and very fortunate. Were he able to open fire he could doubtlessly have killed a number of people even in an enclosed space since there would be few places for people to hide.
Yes its a very worrying development, if perhaps not entirely unexpected by many people.
I think it is most likely a remarkable coincidence and one that has for sure saved lives. I have come across off-duty US Servicemen travelling on trains between European cities for leisure quite a number of times, it seems a popular thing to do.
I'd also agree it is part of a worrying trend and a reminder that the threat, especially from "lone wolf" attackers, never goes away.
The new story changed a bit, making it less suspicious about US soldier presence.
The two US soldiers , a US student friend traveling with them, and a UK businessman were all sitting in Premier (First Class), when suddenly the train guard in a state of horror ran past, just after the first shot.
The two US soldiers then saw the guy with the Kalashnikov walk in, and immediately ran towards him, jumped onto him and tried to fight him.
Their student friend also joined in, and they managed to disarm the man.
When the UK businessman joined in, and they tried to tie him up, the gunman managed to pull out a gun and severely wound one of the US soldiers, but they managed to overpower him eventually.
Source: Dutch NOS, with information coming from witnesses and a press conference.
Oh yes, I forget,he didn't quote a 'reputable academic journal with overwhelming empirical evidence'.
It's called an opinion, get used to yet and stop being unrealistic expecting everyone who opines on here to have an 'expert view'. :roll:
Just watch someone use this as an excuse to bring in airport style security on more train services...
Pointless. The IRA showed other Terrorists the way to go back in 1994 when it came to attacks on fully laden aircraft.
Can't imagine scanners and security being put in place at Berney Arms!
A strategically placed lorry bomb placed under any under bridge, or a lone gunman on Bruton Station spraying a passing West Country HST with automatic fire is not beyond the realms of possibility really.
An update. Both US servicemen were off duty.
Maybe not, but it does not stop it being true. Maybe we have always had these nutters with us but in the past they were far away - it is a cliché but the world is a much smaller place today.
Which won't happen.
(1) It's just too costly for such cheap tickets, and stations would have to be rebuilt.
(2) Many of these (international) high-speed trains run frequent, at some stretches every 10-15 minutes, making checks take very long.
(3) There are many commuters also using these services, especially Brussels-Paris, as Brussels is cheaper to live in than Paris, and the train to Paris takes less time than a suburban Parisian train into town. And they won't want a daily security check.
(4) You can't use a train as a bomb, like you can use a plane to fly into something. You can just explode/shoot locally, and then they'd just blow themselves up in the queue for the security check, which will be busy.
So the person who would go and suggest this knows nothing about the type of service/users.
Good on the chaps who overpowered this person. At the same time, regarding what someone said earlier in the thread I suspect that you really don't have to be in the armed forces to recognise the sound of a gun being cocked. Further to this the vast majority of people in the forces have little to do with guns. I say this as someone who works directly with the UK armed forces. I personally feel no more under threat than at any point in my 40 years, in fact I possibly feel less under threat. The press wouldn't like that.
The BBC article suggests the train crew ran off and locked themselves away from the passengers, leaving them to fend for themselves.
Does anyone know the reality? It sounds very anti rail, and people are bound to jump to conclusions from the way it is being reported or may be reported elsewhere.
As opposed to charging at a lunatic disacharging an automatic firearm....?!
I would expect anybody, staff or otherwise, to leave the area as quickly as possible if they were able to do so. There is very little that most people can do in that situation other than be killed very quickly. There is a current/recent railway industry safety DVD which specifically deals with this situation, known as an 'active shooter'. The advice is most definitely not to attempt to tackle the aggressor.
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Nope. Do feel free to share with us an alternative view should you have one?
Not sure why anyone would take issue with that. If your life is at danger humans will take action to save themselves. Rail staff are trained at dealing with rail emergencies, not disarming gunmen or sheltering passengers from machine gun fire.
The way I see it is that in such a situation, there is nothing that rail staff can do compared to passengers. At this stage everyone is human; some humans may decide to act, some humans may decide to flee. Whether they wear a uniform or not is made irrelevant by the nature of the situation.
(This post was backing up what A-driver was saying with my own personal view)
Blimey, never even thought about that, why he hell should railway workers be expected to intervene with armed gunmen.
But the way the story is (was?) written suggested they left passengers to fend for themselves. Right or wrong it sounds bad doesn't it?
I'd wait until you are shot at whilst working in Tesco or wherever before you cast judgement to be honest.
Yeah if it was me I would have asked them what they were thinking and smacked them in the face!
I was taking about how the story was written, and how it would reflect badly on the crew.
Don't shoot the messenger.
I felt it was, justifiably, bigging up the people that took action and saved the day, while making it sound like the crew were abandoning ship to leave everyone to die.
Yeah sorry mate, wasn't aimed at you. Stuff doesn't always come across correctly on the old digital media.
I think the constant information barrage isn't helping. We're in the greatest period of peace ever by all sensible estimates, and yet the constant media coverage of literally everything going on in the world makes many think it's all falling apart. It's not long ago that we'd simply never have heard 3/4 of what we do now - including major incidents such as shootings, terror attacks and the like - because it would be tucked away on page 28 of one paper rather than broadcast everywhere along with the hundreds of other news items we all consume daily nowadays.