GWR 158 cascade West

[Connor43002]

Hi, i'm new to this site so I thought I would put up a thread.

This subject is one that has bugged and confused me for months as it keeps changing so I thought I could get some info from you guys.

Will GWR 158s ever move further west (Devon and Cornwall)?

For ages I have been reading different peoples views, some saying that 158s will be coming west and some saying that they won't.

What I don't understand is why some people are saying no.

Trying to find info I recently messaged GWR themselves over Facebook and they said that 158s will be moving west.
Another factor is that GWR want a 52% capacity increase in Devon and Cornwall.
GWR are also making the DMU depot in Exeter bigger for the DMU cascade from bristol.
Finally with the Bristol area going 'turbo' throughout the year that would surely mean the 158s will have to move elsewere.
The list goes on...

I am aware of the 2+4 HSTs coming into service this year but only 11 sets are bieng built and they are bieng used on Penzance - Cardiff services.

However I have recently read somewhere that 158s will be running along side the 2+4 HSTs on the Penzance - Cardiff corridor.

Please can someone tell me the correct info.
Thanks ☺

 

[JN114]

158s will be displaced Westward once the 16x fleet take over the majority of the Cardiff - Portsmouth Corridor work; which should happen over the next couple of years.

 

[Connor43002]

158s will be displaced Westward once the 16x fleet take over the majority of the Cardiff - Portsmouth Corridor work; which should happen over the next couple of years.

Hopefully shouldn't be too long then, Thanks for the reply

 

[PHILIPE]

158s will be displaced Westward once the 16x fleet take over the majority of the Cardiff - Portsmouth Corridor work; which should happen over the next couple of years.

The 16x should take over the Cardiff - Portsmouths from this Summer onwards

 

[Connor43002]

The 15x should take over the Cardiff - Portsmouths from this Summer onwards

Do you mean 16x?

 

[PHILIPE]

Do you mean 16x?

Sorry. Too many fat fingers.

 

[Connor43002]

Sorry. Too many fat fingers.

No worries

 

[BestWestern]

A shame to be losing proper regional rolling stock on the Portsmouth route.

 

[Adsy125]

A shame to be losing proper regional rolling stock on the Portsmouth route.

Agreed, the 158s are good trains for the route, all they need is more carriages. A 3+2 turbo would be completely unsuitable.

 

[jimm]

Agreed, the 158s are good trains for the route, all they need is more carriages. A 3+2 turbo would be completely unsuitable.

Except there are no spare 158s available, never mind the substantial number that would be required to allow GWR to keep them on Portsmouth services and also use some in the South West.

Refurbished Turbos with 2+2 seats and more tables would be perfectly acceptable, but it is still unclear as to what GWR plans to do by way of giving them an interior refit, especially the 166s.

 

[Adsy125]

Except there are no spare 158s available, never mind the substantial number that would be required to allow GWR to keep them on Portsmouth services and also use some in the South West.

Refurbished Turbos with 2+2 seats and more tables would be perfectly acceptable, but it is still unclear as to what GWR plans to do by way of giving them an interior refit, especially the 166s.

I don't really understand this, assuming for a second that the GWR 158s don't go West. There are 13x 3 cars and 2x2 cars sets. Which makes 43 vehicles and 21 sets (20 2 car and 1 3 car). Portsmouth-Cardiff takes ~ 3h20, so allowing 40 minutes turnaround at each end it takes 8 hours from departing one end to being able to depart that end again, so you need 8 sets. If you had the 8 sets formed as 2x2 car formations then you would use 16/21 sets, the 3 car could have its own diagram somewhere else and up to 4 sets could be maintained at any one time. So yes there is capacity to increase the number of vehicles, just using the available 158 sets, unless I've missed something?

 

[CC 72100]

I don't really understand this, assuming for a second that the GWR 158s don't go West. There are 13x 3 cars and 2x2 cars sets. Which makes 43 vehicles and 21 sets (20 2 car and 1 3 car). Portsmouth-Cardiff takes ~ 3h20, so allowing 40 minutes turnaround at each end it takes 8 hours from departing one end to being able to depart that end again, so you need 8 sets. If you had the 8 sets formed as 2x2 car formations then you would use 16/21 sets, the 3 car could have its own diagram somewhere else and up to 4 sets could be maintained at any one time. So yes there is capacity to increase the number of vehicles, just using the available 158 sets, unless I've missed something?

Correct - but that's before you add the Cornish mainline local services increase into the equation, that needs trains currently not into the fleet. 16x and 158 are your options... but 16x will only fit on Cardiff-Portsmouth and not Cornish mainline, so that decision is made for you.

Also many CDF-PMH services warrant 5 cars over 4.

 

[jimm]

I don't really understand this, assuming for a second that the GWR 158s don't go West. There are 13x 3 cars and 2x2 cars sets. Which makes 43 vehicles and 21 sets (20 2 car and 1 3 car). Portsmouth-Cardiff takes ~ 3h20, so allowing 40 minutes turnaround at each end it takes 8 hours from departing one end to being able to depart that end again, so you need 8 sets. If you had the 8 sets formed as 2x2 car formations then you would use 16/21 sets, the 3 car could have its own diagram somewhere else and up to 4 sets could be maintained at any one time. So yes there is capacity to increase the number of vehicles, just using the available 158 sets, unless I've missed something?

What don't you understand? The decision was made several years ago to transfer the 158s and all the 150s that are staying with GWR to Exeter to work in Devon and Cornwall and to have an all-Turbo fleet for the various dmu services radiating from Bristol. It simplifies maintenance needs, with 15xs concentrated at Exeter and 16xs at Bristol, as well as crew traction knowledge requirements.

2x2-car 158s gives 260 or so seats, plus some tip-ups. As currently configured a single Class 166 seats 256 people and even if refurbished to 2+2 seats throughout you'd probably still end up with 220+ - tag on a 2-car 165 with 180 or so more seats and you end up with a whole lot more capacity per 5-car Turbo formation for Cardiff-Portsmouths than you could ever get out of GWR's 158s fleet.

 

[Connor43002]

I have also heard that the 3 car 158s will be reformed into 2 car units?

It would make sense as GWR want to run 4 car 158s between Penzance and Cardiff.

 

[PHILIPE]

I have also heard that the 3 car 158s will be reformed into 2 car units?

It would make sense as GWR want to run 4 car 158s between Penzance and Cardiff.

The 3 Barnstaple units will be 3 Car plus another couple of jobs. Don't know what they will be at the moment though.

 

[Connor43002]

The 3 Barnstaple units will be 3 Car plus another couple of jobs. Don't know what they will be at the moment though.

Ok cheers

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The 3 Barnstaple units will be 3 Car plus another couple of jobs. Don't know what they will be at the moment though.

If its diagramming, could it be linked in with the Exmouths and Paigntons as part of the Devon Metro?

 

[Clarence Yard]

If its diagramming, could it be linked in with the Exmouths and Paigntons as part of the Devon Metro?

No - if current plans stay as they are, the 3 cars will stay on the Barnstaple- St James Park Park turns (3 diagrams) and a 3 diagram cycle that takes in Brighton trains on days 1 and 2 and on the final day trains between Gloucester/Cardiff to Taunton/Exeter. The 7th 3 car set is the maintenance spare.

 

[Kite159]

It will be a sad day for the long distance users of the Cardiff - Portsmouth services, getting downgraded to an outer suburban 3+2 seated Turbo, hardly any tables, no seat back tables, counted place reservations most likely for advance tickets... (yes I know GWR had plans to turn them into 2+2, but didn't the DFT say "nope"?)

But hey at least the commuters of Bath will be happy, as they stand in the doorways as hardly anybody likes sitting in the middle seat.

 

[LiftFan]

From my experience the Turbos have been more consistently good for comfort - There are some really nice 158s but even on a new GWR refurb I've found the heating broken and water leaking through the window seals onto my arm.

 

[RPI]

Next week there are night time timing trials on the barnstaple line using... wait for it... a SWR 158 lol

 

[RPI]

Before you get excited though it's nothing to do with SWR running to barny, they just happen to have more spare units at the moment

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Next week there are night time timing trials on the barnstaple line using... wait for it... a SWR 158 lol

Does GWR still hire in a SWT/SWR class 158, I know that they did when the Bath Christmas Market was on?

 

[PHILIPE]

Before you get excited though it's nothing to do with SWR running to barny, they just happen to have more spare units at the moment

SWR have a 158 overnight at Exeter to do the job, whereas GWR would have to work one down to Exeter

Does GWR still hire in a SWT/SWR class 158, I know that they did when the Bath Christmas Market was on?

For approximately the last 6 years and will continue until the end of the current GWR Franchise

 

[nat67]

Hi, i'm new to this site so I thought I would put up a thread.

This subject is one that has bugged and confused me for months as it keeps changing so I thought I could get some info from you guys.

Will GWR 158s ever move further west (Devon and Cornwall)?

For ages I have been reading different peoples views, some saying that 158s will be coming west and some saying that they won't.

What I don't understand is why some people are saying no.

Trying to find info I recently messaged GWR themselves over Facebook and they said that 158s will be moving west.
Another factor is that GWR want a 52% capacity increase in Devon and Cornwall.
GWR are also making the DMU depot in Exeter bigger for the DMU cascade from bristol.
Finally with the Bristol area going 'turbo' throughout the year that would surely mean the 158s will have to move elsewere.
The list goes on...

I am aware of the 2+4 HSTs coming into service this year but only 11 sets are bieng built and they are bieng used on Penzance - Cardiff services.

However I have recently read somewhere that 158s will be running along side the 2+4 HSTs on the Penzance - Cardiff corridor.

Please can someone tell me the correct info.
Thanks ☺

Stupidly the HST's are not being used on services between Exeter and Taunton. Only on the Cardiff-Taunton and Exeter-Penzance which does'nt make any sense.

 

[Connor43002]

Stupidly the HST's are not being used on services between Exeter and Taunton. Only on the Cardiff-Taunton and Exeter-Penzance which does'nt make any sense.

I think a few will do the full journey Penzance-Cardiff

 

[nat67]

I think there is a 0900 From Cardiff-PZ, but not sure of any others, but it would make sense for some from St Phillips Marsh to go south and north.

 

[Connor43002]

I think there is a 0900 From Cardiff-PZ, but not sure of any others, but it would make sense for some from St Phillips Marsh to go south and north.

We could also see more services between Penzance - Cardiff in the new timetable next year

 

[nat67]

I hope, otherwise GWR is good at doing the 5 vice 10 then even better. In doing 5 through to PZ and ten to TAU.

 

[83G/84D]

I heard this week that current plans are for Class 158’s to start crew training in Devon and Cornwall in May.