Yes, when the quota for reservations runs out, no further tickets can be sold online, even walk up fares. It won't be enforced for tickets bought from vending machines or ticket windows. The purpose appears to be to discourage overloading of any particular service.
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GWR Advance fares on the North Downs Line
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R
RailUK Forums
I can't say I've felt the trains to be overcrowded but maybe I've not travelled on the right services or maybe they are expecting them to be overcrowded from Monday or in the coming weeks.
Interestingly enough up until last Friday, there was no 11:40 to Gatwick Aiport and suddenly it's fully booked in terms of reservations.
Anyone who sees it's fully booked, if checking in advance might decide to just drive but then isn't that what the government current wants people people to do?
It's a shame they cant have longer trains as that would help with the social distancing. For example South Western Railway services don't need quota controls because they can run trains that are much longer. Just the way it is.
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If it wasn't in the timetable, perhaps the quotas haven't been loaded then.
No, they hope people will choose a different service. Anyone who buys a ticket from a ticket machine (other than those which require an itinerary) will be oblivious.
SickyNicky
Verified Rep - FastJP
Yes. The 11:40 is reservations compulsory. If there are no seats left, or it's not open to booking for some reason, you won't be able to buy a ticket for it.
Reading to Gatwick Airport on 17/05/2021 | Train Timetable (timetablehistory.com)
Reading to Gatwick Airport on 17/05/2021 | Train Timetable (timetablehistory.com)
I can hardly wait for GWR's note explaining to the many local users of these services that, yes, they can travel on a service that won't display walk-up fares in the GWR app if they select another service and then travel on the train they wanted to catch anyway!
lawried123
Member
As I live at Wokingham, if I buy a return ticket from there to, say, Guildford or anywhere on the North Downs, does it mean that I've also got to reserve a seat on the return service when I buy my outward ticket. I bet the ticket clerks at Wokingham will be pleased about that.
Or does it mean that at say Guildford when I come back, I have to go to the ticket office purely to reserve a seat even though I've already got my return ticket.
Or does it mean that at say Guildford when I come back, I have to go to the ticket office purely to reserve a seat even though I've already got my return ticket.
No, if you go to the ticket office or a vending machine, there appears to be no need to reserve a place on the trains as the tickets aren't sold with an itinerary.
If you book online, you won't be able to select a given service if the train if the quota has been exhausted. However, unless you are buying an advance purchase ticket, you can still buy a walk up ticket from the ticket office or vending machine and travel on that train regardless.
It doesn't appear to be enforced in any other way than 'putting people off' who look at a service online.
As it says in the timetable (and I posted in post 8)
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I know it wasn't in the timetable. That's my point. Last week they weren't running it and now suddenly when they are it's fully booked.
Or as someone else said, perhaps they haven't released any tickets for it.
I guess my point is, last week would it have been a popular service had they run it? It seems odd that a service that wasn't running last week is suddenly popular.
Perhaps it is related to people going on holiday, which they couosnt do last week.
I know it's going round in circles but when I next board a train I will be looking to see if they have seat reservations put out, given the wording used in the timetable.
Unfortunately I won't have a chance to travel on the 11:4) this Monday to see how busy it is.
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lawried123
Member
Just contacted Customer Services, who first replied that I had to buy online or send them a DM, whatever that is to reserve a seat. A further question got this reply
"Reservations are not mandatory, you can still board without one"
As far as I know, mandatory has the same meaning as compulsory,
So one wonders why the timetable is saying one thing while Customer Services are saying another.
"Reservations are not mandatory, you can still board without one"
As far as I know, mandatory has the same meaning as compulsory,
So one wonders why the timetable is saying one thing while Customer Services are saying another.
The timetable data says one thing. But there are only three possible values for services that have reservations - reservations available, reservations recommended and reservations mandatory. There isn't a sufficiently granular level of data to force booking engines to issue a reservation (so that loadings can be monitored) without causing the issues we have seen here.
lawried123
Member
Unfortunately ticket office staff don't know what the right situation is. Just been to Wokingham station and the lady there insists that I have to get a reservation from her when I buy my ticket and if I don't know what train I'm coming back on on I have to go to the ticket office, show my return ticket and get a reservation before I board the train. I didn't dare ask what the situation would be if I boarded at somewhere like Chilworth or Betchworth.
If this is confusing for us, heaven knows what it's like for elderly passengers, put them off travelling by train for life.
If this is confusing for us, heaven knows what it's like for elderly passengers, put them off travelling by train for life.
And if it's confusing for staff, it must surely be confusing for passengers too.
Deepgreen
Established Member
All this is presumably a Covid response, but I wonder if it will remain in place when other travel restrictions are eased (if ever), and, if it remains, how it will fit into the 'green recovery' being touted by our trusted leaders? It will surely deter a large number of people from travelling by train at all as it will become so complicated and restrictive to make leisure or many other journeys as to make car travel, with its 'freedoms', even more attractive. With masks and ever-increasing numbers of vaccinated people, frankly, busy trains are surely not the risk they may once have been (especially if compared to LU, for example).
gray1404
Established Member
It would be interesting and highly concerning if the ticket office at Wokingham is refusing to sell walk up tickets to passengers (either in advance or at the time of travel) on the basis they cannot board a service without a reservation.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Especially as the same passenger can simply walk up to the TVM to buy the same ticket without such hassle.
Deepgreen
Established Member
Exactly - it's unenforcable, unnecessary and counter-productive. The risk is that the policy will spread as TOCs try to tailor their loadings to the service they want to/are able to provide and thus reduce rail usage at a stroke. The benefits of 'turn-up-and-go' rail travel have been discussed elsewhere, but it may be under significant threat from this sort of policy.
When I put in Guildford to Gatwick Airport and there are no advanced purchase tickets, I'm not seeing trains unavailable. All I see is off-peak tickets for sale, so it seems something has changed since they first introduced the advanced purchase tickets.
What day are you looking at? The quotas aren't the same for advance fares and other tickets. The off-peak tickets show as available until the reservations try to be committed.
Putting the idea of advance tickets being available between NDL stations on one side (which I disagree with, possibly excepting airport journeys, although I'm yet to be convinced of that either as a fixed advance for a journey from Gatwick would be taking quite a risk in return for a small saving), there are still issues with the fares data.
An example. The M-F 08:02 departure from Gatwick to Reading has no fares available no matter which date is entered according to NRE:-
ojp.nationalrail.co.uk
This also applies to all intermediate stations.
An example. The M-F 08:02 departure from Gatwick to Reading has no fares available no matter which date is entered according to NRE:-
Journey Planner - Trains Times and Fares - National Rail Enquiries
The gateway to Britain's National Rail network. A portal into UK rail travel including train company information and promotions; train times; fares enquiries; ticket purchase and train running information.
ojp.nationalrail.co.uk
I think that is because that train has been reinstated (to fill a gap at the east end that was affecting school traffic) since the quotas were added and the fare department haven't caught up with operations.
I was looking at tomorrow.
I thought originally once advanced reservations were all sold, nothing showed up as being able to be booked or am I misremembering it.
To return to this thread, I'm pleased to see that Advances are now widely available for long distance journeys between NDL stations and the west. Good news. My thanks to whoever in GWR has sorted this out.
I'm visiting Oxford soon and an off-peak ticket isn't valid from Guildford until 09:29, which means one would need to get the 10:15 to avoid peak prices [there is a 09:57 but it doesn't connect with anything unlike the 10:47]. However, GWR has a £5 advanced fare available if I catch the 7:07, which itself isn't reservable but the portion from Reading is. So I did just that.
On my way back, there was no advanced fare for the 22:32 from Oxford. However, if I split my waiting around time between Didcot and Reading stations, I can get an advanced fare from Didcot. I still get home at the same time too and save £4-£5! Trainsplit were helpful with this and yes I did purchase through them as a result.
So there are some advantages to the advanced purchase fares.
On my way back, there was no advanced fare for the 22:32 from Oxford. However, if I split my waiting around time between Didcot and Reading stations, I can get an advanced fare from Didcot. I still get home at the same time too and save £4-£5! Trainsplit were helpful with this and yes I did purchase through them as a result.
So there are some advantages to the advanced purchase fares.
You may find that if you use unreservable trains between Oxford and Didcot and between Didcot and Reading that you can get a through advance purchase fare for £5 - stuff like specifying a stop at Cholsey in the journey planners (although it obviously takes longer).
Thanks for the tip. I'll remember that one.
I just looked it up and on a weekend night the last possible train is at 20:10 and it takes 2 hours.. I'd rather pay £3-£4 more to get the 22:32. As it was there was a 21:02 that was £5 but that was too early as I was meeting people for the evening.
There are some great value fares if you know where to look. Some I've stumbled upon myself and then in some cases, I've realised the stations have a lot of good value fares to many different places, besides the first combination I came across.
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Erm, as you were.
GWR's revised (= dramatically increased) prices of Advances on the NDL is having (possibly unthought through) consequences for long distance journeys to the west again.
Example: Blackwater to Bath on Wednesday 28 July, arriving in Bath before 1000 and departing between 1700 and 1830.
- GWR offer £44.90 Advances outbound and £19.50 Advances inbound, a total of £64.40
- But, when searching for fares from Reading to Bath on the same trains, GWR offer £15.20 Advances for both legs, a total of £30.40. Given an Anytime Day Return from Blackwater to Reading is £9.60 this means GWR are charging a £24.40 premium for the "privilege" of booking through tickets.
I've looked at journeys to Exeter and Cardiff too and the pricing of Advances from/to NDL stations is nowhere near competitive with the prices from/to Reading + the cost of an Anytime Day return to Reading: Exeter is £38.80 more expensive while Cardiff is £12.40 more.
Meanwhile, Advances from destinations beyond London via Paddington/ Reading to NDL stations have simply disappeared, despite being available to Reading on the same itineraries. An example is Ipswich - where no Advances are offered for the return leg to Blackwater at all - only the £58.70 Off Peak Single is offered. But if travelling on the same trains to Reading then £18.10 Advances are widely available.
This muddle is discouraging people from using GWR's services, which surely cannot be the Pricing team's intention.
There were some great value fares for a time. As pointed out in the 'ridiculous fares on GWR' thread, they all appear to have been repriced to be practically useless.
As you were, Part II.
The Ipswich problem has been solved since I posted earlier. Lots of competitively priced Advances from Ipswich via Reading to Blackwater magically now appear in NRE searches.
Just the issue with Advances from NDL stations to the west to solve now.
Probably depends on the date - I'm not seeing any advance fares connecting onto the North Downs Line, Ipswich or the west, on 9 August despite them being available to Reading.
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