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GWR caught without Railcard

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Viking1

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Joined
9 Jun 2021
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7
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Taplow
Hey guys, similar to Anahabsh due to a serious misjudgement on my part I got caught without a 16-25 railcard. I panicked and said it was at home. But I immediately bought a digital railcard within minutes after leaving station. This is honestly my first time. The train company is GWR. How quick are they with the procecution department and would it be better if I contacted them myself? Any help is much appreciated

Mod - reference to Anahabsh from this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-reported-for-prosecution.217815
 
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Fawkes Cat

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3,520
Hey guys, similar to Anahabsh due to a serious misjudgement on my part I got caught without a 16-25 railcard. I panicked and said it was at home. But I immediately bought a digital railcard within minutes after leaving station. This is honestly my first time. The train company is GWR. How quick are they with the procecution department and would it be better if I contacted them myself? Any help is much appreciated
Welcome to the forum.

If this is the first time that you have come to the railway’s attention then it’s quite likely that the railway will allow you to settle out of court. Have a good look at @Hadders ’ post of 25 May 2021 above and that will tell you more or less everything you need to know. The only points I would add are that
- while normally you will hear within a few weeks, it can be up to a little more than six months before you are certain that they won’t get back to you, and
- it really won’t help to contact them first. From people who come back to explain what happens, waiting for the railway to be in touch doesn’t seem to make things worse.
 

RPI

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2010
Messages
2,915
Hey guys, similar to Anahabsh due to a serious misjudgement on my part I got caught without a 16-25 railcard. I panicked and said it was at home. But I immediately bought a digital railcard within minutes after leaving station. This is honestly my first time. The train company is GWR. How quick are they with the procecution department and would it be better if I contacted them myself? Any help is much appreciated
With GWR, if you say that you've forgotten your railcard then they will write to you giving an opportunity to present this railcard and as long as you do then there's no further action provided its your first time, however, they will know what time you bought your railcard so you can more than likely expect to pay £90+the Anytime Single fare for your journey, if you used an E Ticket they will also more than likely look at your booking history to see how many other times you may have used a railcard discounted ticket.
 

Viking1

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2021
Messages
7
Location
Taplow
With GWR, if you say that you've forgotten your railcard then they will write to you giving an opportunity to present this railcard and as long as you do then there's no further action provided its your first time, however, they will know what time you bought your railcard so you can more than likely expect to pay £90+the Anytime Single fare for your journey, if you used an E Ticket they will also more than likely look at your booking history to see how many other times you may have used a railcard discounted ticket.
Hey Do you think its better to take the first step and deal with this head on by contacting GWR. It is my biggest lapse in judgement. I work as a researcher Currently at university so would not like record on my file for something like this. This is the 1st time I did something stupid like this and have never done something like this before. I have been using the line for close to 8 years now... Do you suggest I contact them?
 

Tazi Hupefi

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1 Apr 2018
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1,545
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Nottinghamshire
Hey Do you think its better to take the first step and deal with this head on by contacting GWR. It is my biggest lapse in judgement. I work as a researcher Currently at university so would not like record on my file for something like this. This is the 1st time I did something stupid like this and have never done something like this before. I have been using the line for close to 8 years now... Do you suggest I contact them?
Wait for them to contact you. It's a slow process.

Probably going through a long list of other people caught. You probably need to be added to whatever system they use to process cases, and before then, your letter may just confuse matters.

From what you've put so far, you didn't possess a valid discount card whatsoever at the time of the offence, so buying one afterwards isn't going to make much difference, if anything it could make it worse if they think you're trying to deceive them by claiming you had it at the time, just couldn't find it etc.

Try not to worry, but you need patience.
 

Viking1

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2021
Messages
7
Location
Taplow
Wait for them to contact you. It's a slow process.

Probably going through a long list of other people caught. You probably need to be added to whatever system they use to process cases, and before then, your letter may just confuse matters.

From what you've put so far, you didn't possess a valid discount card whatsoever at the time of the offence, so buying one afterwards isn't going to make much difference, if anything it could make it worse if they think you're trying to deceive them by claiming you had it at the time, just couldn't find it etc.

Try not to worry, but you need patience.
Thanks so much for helping me guys. In my panick and embarrassment I said I had a railcard at home. When I didn't. Eventually, when GWR sends the letter. I will say I don't have a railcard. Do you think I should contact a solicitor because I lied to the Railway inspector in panic.
 

Tazi Hupefi

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2018
Messages
1,545
Location
Nottinghamshire
Thanks so much for helping me guys. In my panick and embarrassment I said I had a railcard at home. When I didn't. Eventually, when GWR sends the letter. I will say I don't have a railcard. Do you think I should contact a solicitor because I lied to the Railway inspector in panic.
Don't need a solicitor yet. Wait until you get the letter and return here for further advice. You will probably not need any legal advice at all if you stay calm and carefully consider your words.
 

Viking1

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2021
Messages
7
Location
Taplow
Don't need a solicitor yet. Wait until you get the letter and return here for further advice. You will probably not need any legal advice at all if you stay calm and carefully consider your words.
Thank you so much for all the help guys... its a such stressful time...
 

RPI

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2010
Messages
2,915
Thank you so much for all the help guys... its a such stressful time...
The inspector should have handed you a white card that says "reported for prosecution", on which are 2 QR codes, one for the privacy policy and one for the revenue protection policy, in the revenue protection policy its quite clear that prosecution is always a last resort, if you haven't got the card then you can go to GWR.com/revenueprotection and its available there
 

Fawkes Cat

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Messages
3,520
Do you think I should contact a solicitor
... its a such stressful time...
It may help with your stress to think about the worst that could happen - because while the news is not good, it's not that dreadful either.

The worst that can happen is that the railway* take you to court, you are convicted (that is, you plead guilty or are found guilty) and you are sentenced. It's what the sentence might be and what it means that are the important things to look at.

Firstly, the sentence: there are (broadly) two charges that the railway could make against you, one under the railway bye-laws, and the other under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (RoRA). If you're convicted under RoRA then in theory you could be sent to prison. But in practice that doesn't happen unless you are a (very) persistent offender or somehow you aggravated the offence (maybe by being physically violent to railway staff). As neither of these seem to be the case, you will not go to prison. Instead you will face a fine - typically of around half your weekly income. There will also be compensation to the train company, prosecution costs and various court costs to pay - these will add up to some hundreds of pounds.

So obviously there will be a hit on your pocket. You will also have what is popularly known as a 'criminal record'. In some circumstances you have to tell people about this. But those circumstances are generally when they have a legitimate right to see if you're trustworthy - maybe because you're starting a new job or volunteering, or looking for insurance. But for most of these purposes, you only have to mention criminal convictions that aren't 'spent' under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (RoOA - confusingly, almost the same abbreviation as RoRA). Byelaw convictions are immediately 'spent' - so if RoOA applies you don't need to mention them. RoRA convictions are spent after a year - so you don't have to mention them for very long.

But there are some exceptions where you will have to continue telling people about convictions (and where RoOA isn't the relevant legislation). Some jobs (mainly those involving a great deal of trust - either because you are handling money or you are intimately involved in a client's life (so personal care, medical professions and so on)) are exempt from RoOA. And if a DBS check is involved then an enhanced check may disclose convictions.

But there's always another level of 'but' - and here it is. In my experience, and from what we've seen on this forum, there are very few jobs which are absolutely closed to you if you get a conviction for fare-dodging. Most employers want their staff to be basically honest - but they recognise that everyone makes mistakes from time to time. One conviction from the railways is likely to be seen as a mistake. Several convictions might be seen as making mistakes but not learning from them: having a conviction and trying to hide it (so not telling an employer when they're entitled to know, for example) would be seen as making a bad job worse. That could lose you your job. But in general, people don't lose their jobs just for having one conviction from the railways.

Put shortly, having a conviction is not life- or career-ending. It's expensive, and it's embarrassing. But try not to worry too much or let your stress rise too high. Even if the worst happens, life will go on.


*For regular readers of this list, I don't think we can be certain which TOC is involved. I know Viking1 has told us that the company is GWR, but as I understand it services from Taplow (which they have given as their location) are now operated by TfL. So (in my mind at least) there's some doubt.

(Edited 13/6: aggregated > aggravated. I am not the best proof reader.)
 
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Viking1

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2021
Messages
7
Location
Taplow
It may help with your stress to think about the worst that could happen - because while the news is not good, it's not that dreadful either.

The worst that can happen is that the railway* take you to court, you are convicted (that is, you plead guilty or are found guilty) and you are sentenced. It's what the sentence might be and what it means that are the important things to look at.

Firstly, the sentence: there are (broadly) two charges that the railway could make against you, one under the railway bye-laws, and the other under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (RoRA). If you're convicted under RoRA then in theory you could be sent to prison. But in practice that doesn't happen unless you are a (very) persistent offender or somehow you aggregated the offence (maybe by being physically violent to railway staff). As neither of these seem to be the case, you will not go to prison. Instead you will face a fine - typically of around half your weekly income. There will also be compensation to the train company, prosecution costs and various court costs to pay - these will add up to some hundreds of pounds.

So obviously there will be a hit on your pocket. You will also have what is popularly known as a 'criminal record'. In some circumstances you have to tell people about this. But those circumstances are generally when they have a legitimate right to see if you're trustworthy - maybe because you're starting a new job or volunteering, or looking for insurance. But for most of these purposes, you only have to mention criminal convictions that aren't 'spent' under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (RoOA - confusingly, almost the same abbreviation as RoRA). Byelaw convictions are immediately 'spent' - so if RoOA applies you don't need to mention them. RoRA convictions are spent after a year - so you don't have to mention them for very long.

But there are some exceptions where you will have to continue telling people about convictions (and where RoOA isn't the relevant legislation). Some jobs (mainly those involving a great deal of trust - either because you are handling money or you are intimately involved in a client's life (so personal care, medical professions and so on)) are exempt from RoOA. And if a DBS check is involved then an enhanced check may disclose convictions.

But there's always another level of 'but' - and here it is. In my experience, and from what we've seen on this forum, there are very few jobs which are absolutely closed to you if you get a conviction for fare-dodging. Most employers want their staff to be basically honest - but they recognise that everyone makes mistakes from time to time. One conviction from the railways is likely to be seen as a mistake. Several convictions might be seen as making mistakes but not learning from them: having a conviction and trying to hide it (so not telling an employer when they're entitled to know, for example) would be seen as making a bad job worse. That could lose you your job. But in general, people don't lose their jobs just for having one conviction from the railways.

Put shortly, having a conviction is not life- or career-ending. It's expensive, and it's embarrassing. But try not to worry too much or let your stress rise too high. Even if the worst happens, life will go on.


*For regular readers of this list, I don't think we can be certain which TOC is involved. I know Viking1 has told us that the company is GWR, but as I understand it services from Taplow (which they have given as their location) are now operated by TfL. So (in my mind at least) there's some doubt.
Thanks for the information. It's all very new and confusing. At this point other than feeling embarrassed and waiting for the letter can't do much.
 

AlastairFraser

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2018
Messages
2,897
It may help with your stress to think about the worst that could happen - because while the news is not good, it's not that dreadful either.

The worst that can happen is that the railway* take you to court, you are convicted (that is, you plead guilty or are found guilty) and you are sentenced. It's what the sentence might be and what it means that are the important things to look at.

Firstly, the sentence: there are (broadly) two charges that the railway could make against you, one under the railway bye-laws, and the other under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (RoRA). If you're convicted under RoRA then in theory you could be sent to prison. But in practice that doesn't happen unless you are a (very) persistent offender or somehow you aggregated the offence (maybe by being physically violent to railway staff). As neither of these seem to be the case, you will not go to prison. Instead you will face a fine - typically of around half your weekly income. There will also be compensation to the train company, prosecution costs and various court costs to pay - these will add up to some hundreds of pounds.

So obviously there will be a hit on your pocket. You will also have what is popularly known as a 'criminal record'. In some circumstances you have to tell people about this. But those circumstances are generally when they have a legitimate right to see if you're trustworthy - maybe because you're starting a new job or volunteering, or looking for insurance. But for most of these purposes, you only have to mention criminal convictions that aren't 'spent' under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (RoOA - confusingly, almost the same abbreviation as RoRA). Byelaw convictions are immediately 'spent' - so if RoOA applies you don't need to mention them. RoRA convictions are spent after a year - so you don't have to mention them for very long.

But there are some exceptions where you will have to continue telling people about convictions (and where RoOA isn't the relevant legislation). Some jobs (mainly those involving a great deal of trust - either because you are handling money or you are intimately involved in a client's life (so personal care, medical professions and so on)) are exempt from RoOA. And if a DBS check is involved then an enhanced check may disclose convictions.

But there's always another level of 'but' - and here it is. In my experience, and from what we've seen on this forum, there are very few jobs which are absolutely closed to you if you get a conviction for fare-dodging. Most employers want their staff to be basically honest - but they recognise that everyone makes mistakes from time to time. One conviction from the railways is likely to be seen as a mistake. Several convictions might be seen as making mistakes but not learning from them: having a conviction and trying to hide it (so not telling an employer when they're entitled to know, for example) would be seen as making a bad job worse. That could lose you your job. But in general, people don't lose their jobs just for having one conviction from the railways.

Put shortly, having a conviction is not life- or career-ending. It's expensive, and it's embarrassing. But try not to worry too much or let your stress rise too high. Even if the worst happens, life will go on.


*For regular readers of this list, I don't think we can be certain which TOC is involved. I know Viking1 has told us that the company is GWR, but as I understand it services from Taplow (which they have given as their location) are now operated by TfL. So (in my mind at least) there's some doubt.
I didn't think TfL Rail actually employed many RPIs, but I may be wrong, and there must be a few GWR peak services stopping at Taplow to/from Paddington.
 

nanstallon

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2015
Messages
882
If you buy a ticket on line with a railcard discount when you haven't got a railcard, but you buy a railcard before you travel, that is presumably OK?
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
18,224
If you buy a ticket on line with a railcard discount when you haven't got a railcard, but you buy a railcard before you travel, that is presumably OK?
With heavy emphasis on ‘before you travel’, yes.
 

Viking1

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2021
Messages
7
Location
Taplow
Hey Guys, just wanted to give an update. A letter from GWR arrived today with a pre court settlement offer for £96. Paid it online already. Suffice to say very relieved. Thanks for all the helpful advise guys!

Just wanted to check one final thing, for work I need an enhanced Dbs which is automatically done every year at the start of the financial year. Do I need talk to my Hr in regards to this... or would a pre court settlement not show up at all.
 

Haywain

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Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
18,224
Hey Guys, just wanted to give an update. A letter from GWR arrived today with a pre court settlement offer for £96. Paid it online already. Suffice to say very relieved. Thanks for all the helpful advise guys!

Just wanted to check one final thing, for work I need an enhanced Dbs which is automatically done every year at the start of the financial year. Do I need talk to my Hr in regards to this... or would a pre court settlement not show up at all.
There is no chance of this showing up at all. This is not, in any way, a conviction.
 

AlterEgo

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Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
22,570
Location
Rugby
Just wanted to check one final thing, for work I need an enhanced Dbs which is automatically done every year at the start of the financial year. Do I need talk to my Hr in regards to this... or would a pre court settlement not show up at all.
It would not show up on an Enhanced DBS, you haven't been convicted nor would the police have had any involvement. The matter is closed.
 
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