GWR change of service

[Lee_Again]

Hi All,
Just found out my direct Paddington to Penzance train (21/7 1C76) is stopping short at Plymouth, followed by a change on to 2C24 which shows as a Class 158/168/170/175 . Anybody know if the London train will be 5, 9 or 10 coaches. And will the Penzance train be an IET and only timed as a 158.
Thank you,
Lee

 

[83G/84D]

2C24 is a 2+4 HST today & 1C76 is 2 x 5 car 802's.

 

[Lee_Again]

2C24 is a 2+4 HST today & 1C76 is 2 x 5 car 802's.

Thank you. Any chance you can keep an eye out to see if the pattern repeats? It would be much appreciated. Any idea why GWR aren’t going direct? I guess it’s low loading.

 

[PHILIPE]

Thank you. Any chance you can keep an eye out to see if the pattern repeats? It would be much appreciated. Any idea why GWR aren’t going direct? I guess it’s low loading.

Because the IET is required to work back from Plymouth and the locals in Cornwall are worked by Castle 2+4 HSTs or 158s. Many of them from Paddington do go through to Penzance and at the moment there are alterations due to an amended COVID Timetable.

 

[Lee_Again]

Because the IET is required to work back from Plymouth and the locals in Cornwall are worked by Castle 2+4 HSTs or 158s. Many of them from Paddington do go through to Penzance and at the moment there are alterations due to an amended COVID Timetable.

Is it 'Required' or is just working back? The normal pre CV timetable has direct trains. I'm not sure I understand why that should now be different. Especially with school holidays starting this week. Clearly, during the lockdown period a reduced COVID timetable was sensible. Now, I'm not convinced.

 

[PHILIPE]

Is it 'Required' or is just working back? The normal pre CV timetable has direct trains. I'm not sure I understand why that should now be different. Especially with school holidays starting this week. Clearly, during the lockdown period a reduced COVID timetable was sensible. Now, I'm not convinced.

There are no through trains between Paddington and Penzance during COVID outside the morning and evening and an hourly connecting service is in operation from Plymouth to Penzance. There is a reduction in services all over the country and not just at Plymouth. The DFT are having to fund specially what is running due to the shortfall in income during this crisis and with the reduced number of passengers travelling, A full service would not be required at this time, this being aggravated by people having to spread out to maintain social distancing. Services are being reviewed all the time and train services gradually being increased.

 

[83G/84D]

Thank you. Any chance you can keep an eye out to see if the pattern repeats? It would be much appreciated. Any idea why GWR aren’t going direct? I guess it’s low loading.

Same again yesterday and today.

 

[PHILIPE]

It appears that the working will continue throughout next week but not yet decided definitely for the following week.

 

[berneyarms]

Thank you. Any chance you can keep an eye out to see if the pattern repeats? It would be much appreciated. Any idea why GWR aren’t going direct? I guess it’s low loading.

The pattern of course repeats, because that is the timetable that is in place currently.

You can clearly see that on real time trains that the current schedule of four direct IET services in each direction on Monday-Friday continues for this week and next (four to London in the early morning and four return in the evenings from London).

Saturday does see an all day Paddington-Penzance IET service which probably is reflective of the higher numbers travelling for holidays.

As Philipe says, it may change when we get to the week after next, but these decisions are taken roughly a week beforehand at the moment.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

There is also a consideration of a proportionally higher rate of sickness among all traincrew depots. If all the HSS services were to run (and just local trains thinned out) then there would likely be days when a shortage of drivers qualified to work IETs would result in cancellations.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

From Monday 27 July, there will be a further uplift in GWR services in Devon and Cornwall, with most (but not all) direct London to Penzance trains restored on Mondays to Saturdays, together with some of the semi-fast London - Exeter services also restored, allowing most daytime London - Plymouth/Penzance services to revert to being non-stop between Reading and Taunton. This will also allow restoration of some direct trains between London and Paignton. There will also be additional stopping trains between Exeter/Plymouth and Penzance, many of which will be Castle Class HSTs. Train times up to Friday 31 July should now be largely correct in all downstream systems. Paddington to Penzance trains will be mostly 10 car east of Plymouth and 5 car in Cornwall, although there may be the odd exception to this. Only on Sundays does the limited service of 2 direct trains in each direction between London and Penzance remain for the time being.

 

[berneyarms]

There is also a consideration of a proportionally higher rate of sickness among all traincrew depots. If all the HSS services were to run (and just local trains thinned out) then there would likely be days when a shortage of drivers qualified to work IETs would result in cancellations.

Agreed.

Far better to have a level of service advertised that is achievable rather than having mass cancellations as arose in recent years due to training etc.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

From Monday 27 July:

London to Penzance direct trains will run at: 0804, 1004, 1204, 1404, 1504, 1604, 1704, 1804, 1904 (Fridays only) and the Night Riviera service will run, still as a seated option only, on Mondays to Fridays, rather than just Thursday/Friday nights as currently
London to Plymouth terminators: 0904, 1104, 1304, 1637, 1837, 1904 (extended to Penzance on Fridays) and 2004
London to Paignton services at: 0704, 0937 and 1736
London to Exeter SD terminators at: 0637, 1035 and 1234

Penzance to London direct trains will run at: 0604, 0710, 0815, 0911, 1015, 1415, 1615 and 2145 (Night Riviera)
Plymouth starters to London at: 0451, 0534, 0549, 0652, 1314, 1415, 1514 and 1650.
Paignton to London trains at: 0713, 1052 and 1412
Exeter SD starters to London at: 0941, 1340 and 1538

 

[Horizon22]

Saturday will also see a small uplift including the 0835 and 1136 to Plymouth & 1035 to Paignton.

The weekday plans are as above with a full West Country services from Paddington gradually being introduced to normal timetable by early September to coincide with increase in demand.

 

[Lee_Again]

Thank you for all the comments and updates.

 

[irish_rail]

Wouldn't want to be on the 1004 or 1204 when it splits at plymouth and join the squeeze in the front set into cornwall.
Somehow we always knew the promise of the 9 cars being used to PZ in july and august wouldn't materialise.....

 

[Horizon22]

Wouldn't want to be on the 1004 or 1204 when it splits at plymouth and join the squeeze in the front set into cornwall.
Somehow we always knew the promise of the 9 cars being used to PZ in july and august wouldn't materialise.....

Well there has been a global pandemic which I suspect may have altered plans a little.

 

[TheWalrus]

Thank you. Any chance you can keep an eye out to see if the pattern repeats? It would be much appreciated. Any idea why GWR aren’t going direct? I guess it’s low loading.

I had a Castle HST from Plymouth to Truro today and 4 car 158 back. All the ones I passed were HSTs except the 158.

 

[irish_rail]

Well there has been a global pandemic which I suspect may have altered plans a little.

Yes and routes to the west country are busier than those to none tourist destinations which makes it even more baffling that the 9 cars are being wasted whilst trains up country are still very quiet. Down here on the other hand it is getting noticeably busy now and next week it will really take off.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes and routes to the west country are busier than those to none tourist destinations which makes it even more baffling that the 9 cars are being wasted whilst trains up country are still very quiet. Down here on the other hand it is getting noticeably busy now and next week it will really take off.

I would agree that West Country trains are the busiest of the bunch, but suggesting other "9 cars are wasted" is nonsense. It's getting busier across the board. Hence why all the West Country trains are coming back including more Penzance vice Plymouth services. This is versus there still only being an hourly S. Wales.

 

[irish_rail]

I would agree that West Country trains are the busiest of the bunch, but suggesting other "9 cars are wasted" is nonsense. It's getting busier across the board. Hence why all the West Country trains are coming back including more Penzance vice Plymouth services. This is versus there still only being an hourly S. Wales.

So its ONLY hourly to Swansea. However will they cope..... meanwhile, its hourly as always to the southwest and with the high summer now upon us and most people choosing to holiday at home this year, we are to accept less than hourly 5 car sets from London into Cornwall.
Any sensible TOC would put the 9 car 802s where they are needed, ie onto the Penzance route for the next couple of months at least!!!

 

[irish_rail]

So its ONLY hourly to Swansea. However will they cope..... meanwhile, its hourly as always to the southwest and with the high summer now upon us and most people choosing to holiday at home this year, we are to accept less than hourly 5 car sets from London into Cornwall.
Any sensible TOC would put the 9 car 802s where they are needed, ie onto the Penzance route for the next couple of months at least!!!

Just to add, why should I be putting myself and my family at risk, (we have jobs that involve travelling down to penzance) , just because the government, or gwr, or whoever, cant put the 9 car 802s on the right services where they are needed.....

 

[Lee_Again]

Wouldn't want to be on the 1004 or 1204 when it splits at plymouth and join the squeeze in the front set into cornwall.
Somehow we always knew the promise of the 9 cars being used to PZ in july and august wouldn't materialise.....

Yep. Me next Tuesday!!! Supposed to be 1st Class direct. It will be 5 or 10 to Plymouth, then 4 coaches, standard, to Penzance. Presumably no 1st class on the Castles or 158s.

 

[irish_rail]

Yep. Me next Tuesday!!! Supposed to be 1st Class direct. It will be 5 or 10 to Plymouth, then 4 coaches, standard, to Penzance. Presumably no 1st class on the Castles or 158s.

What a sad state of affairs it is . The 9 car 802s ordered for the south west and all predictably robbed for politically so called more important routes. I feel for you, first class ticket and yet u will have to join the plymouth stampede onto an all standard 2+4 if you are lucky, or if you are unlucky it may be a single 150 or 158. Talk about a backwards step.
But all the while there will be a guy with a carriage to himself travelling from Cardiff to swansea on a 9 car 802, so that's ok then......

 

[jimm]

What a sad state of affairs it is . The 9 car 802s ordered for the south west and all predictably robbed for politically so called more important routes. I feel for you, first class ticket and yet u will have to join the plymouth stampede onto an all standard 2+4 if you are lucky, or if you are unlucky it may be a single 150 or 158. Talk about a backwards step.
But all the while there will be a guy with a carriage to himself travelling from Cardiff to swansea on a 9 car 802, so that's ok then......

What a surprise to find you still spinning fiction as fact. The nine-car 802s are ordered for various jobs on the GWR network, many of them not involving services that go anywhere near the south west.

Are you able to actually provide some figures for this supposed massive volumes of passengers travelling between London and the West Country at present, or some video footage of these stampedes at Plymouth? As usual, I confidently predict that the answers will be 'no' and 'no'.

There sure as heck aren't the usual volumes of people heading by train to tourist areas such as Oxford (among the most-visited destinations in the UK year after year) or the Cotswolds at the moment. Is it something do do with this virus thing I keep hearing about on the news? Or has everyone just gone to Cornwall instead...?

Anyway, I expect you'll be back soon to tell us why Oxford and the Cotswolds aren't really tourist destinations at all and just part of the 'commuter-land' you dislike so much.

 

[irish_rail]

What a surprise to find you still spinning fiction as fact. The nine-car 802s are ordered for various jobs on the GWR network, many of them not involving services that go anywhere near the south west.

Are you able to actually provide some figures for this supposed massive volumes of passengers travelling between London and the West Country at present, or some video footage of these stampedes at Plymouth? As usual, I confidently predict that the answers will be 'no' and 'no'.

There sure as heck aren't the usual volumes of people heading by train to tourist areas such as Oxford (among the most-visited destinations in the UK year after year) or the Cotswolds at the moment. Is it something do do with this virus thing I keep hearing about on the news? Or has everyone just gone to Cornwall instead...?

Anyway, I expect you'll be back soon to tell us why Oxford and the Cotswolds aren't really tourist destinations at all and just part of the 'commuter-land' you dislike so much.

Sigh. If you think most people are visiting oxford for there holidays this year you are rather wrong. Most of oxfords tourism comes from abroad, so none existent this year. Meanwhile, the vast majority of Brits are choosing to holiday at home, and devon and cornwall not surprisingly are number 1 destination of choice .
We were promised in july and August that more 9 cars would run to PZ so where are they?

 

[LordCreed]

At the moment allocations are extremely dynamic. If a train breaks social distancing capacity, then strengthening will be done as necessary.

The St Ives branch has been overcrowded, and has been strengthened as a result. The latest loading results has shown that there is a single WoE service that is overcrowded, ironically being a nine car.

If you believe differently, then you need to report the loadings officially, as then something can be done.

 

[Clarence Yard]

What a sad state of affairs it is . The 9 car 802s ordered for the south west and all predictably robbed for politically so called more important routes. I feel for you, first class ticket and yet u will have to join the plymouth stampede onto an all standard 2+4 if you are lucky, or if you are unlucky it may be a single 150 or 158. Talk about a backwards step.
But all the while there will be a guy with a carriage to himself travelling from Cardiff to swansea on a 9 car 802, so that's ok then......

Give it a rest please. As you are aware, I had a large hand in the ordering of these sets and the 9 cars were not ordered for the SW - only a few were and they were for jobs such as the Paigntons, where load 5 wouldn't do and load 10 was too much. You know why the far west got 5 cars from Plymouth outside of season and when the loads this year justify going load 9, you will see more load 9. At the moment, the overall loadings on that route are truly pathetic but some uplift is being seen and more predicted so the service and formations are being augmented on a steadily increasing basis.

As for "politically more important routes", that's utter rubbish. GWR (and the DfT) will put their resources where the majority of the revenue is but the south west has done very well for service improvements and new/refurbished stock in the last few years and that didn't happen by accident or without a lot of effort.

If you think GWR is going to put all their 9 cars onto the SW route at the expense of other routes to go load 5 on those others, forget it. Your oft stated wish isn't going to happen, no matter how many times you repeat it (in numerous threads) on here.

 

[irish_rail]

Give it a rest please. As you are aware, I had a large hand in the ordering of these sets and the 9 cars were not ordered for the SW - only a few were and they were for jobs such as the Paigntons, where load 5 wouldn't do and load 10 was too much. You know why the far west got 5 cars from Plymouth outside of season and when the loads this year justify going load 9, you will see more load 9. At the moment, the overall loadings on that route are truly pathetic but some uplift is being seen and more predicted so the service and formations are being augmented on a steadily increasing basis.

As for "politically more important routes", that's utter rubbish. GWR (and the DfT) will put their resources where the majority of the revenue is but the south west has done very well for service improvements and new/refurbished stock in the last few years and that didn't happen by accident or without a lot of effort.

If you think GWR is going to put all their 9 cars onto the SW route at the expense of other routes to go load 5 on those others, forget it. Your oft stated wish isn't going to happen, no matter how many times you repeat it (in numerous threads) on here.

I'm pretty sure it was you who stated that more services would operate full length into cornwall in july and august. This is my bug bear. Do the diagrammers seriously believe that a pad to swansea service next week deserves a 9 car more than a pad to pz? It is utterly ridiculous. I dont know how loadings can be seen as pathetic down here at present. In a socially distance context the trains I have driven and passed on lately have been busy, and the real test will be from today onwards. Social distancing on a 5 car set in cornwall on certain services will not work. And what's frustrating is there are spare sets as well as 9 car sets that could be used but aren't.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Now I'm sorry if I'm going slightly off topic or saying similar to what's being said but personally, as much as I love a 9-car IET (anyone would), they are much better being used on largely the routes to and from the South West and London and some of the routes to and from London, Bristol and South Wales.

Maybe 1, 2 (3 at a push) 9-cars on the routes to and from London, Oxford and the North Cotswolds yes, obviously at the busiest times.

I say this because when I went to and from Oxford and Great Malvern on Saturday 1st February nearly 6 months ago, I saw many 5-cars on that line and we have to remember there's the short platforms as well so 8-car HST's would have been too long for some platforms. 5-cars are rather useful which saves potentially a last-second panic of being in the wrong part of a 9-car, especially if reverse formed.

What makes me laugh is a few times on Twitter during the December 2019 timetable, people have complained about the 18:10ish from Slough (fast service) to London being 5 coaches when previous 9. Allocating 9 coaches just for the 12-15 minute stretch is pointless when it doesn't hurt to take the like 20-minutes longer Class 387 or Tfl Class 345 services. That's like me opting for the same Off-Peak service from Didcot to Reading and constantly being 5 coaches overcrowded when there's multiple less than half full 8-car 387's to choose from.

There's also Chiltern Railways from Oxford to London now too.