GWR change of service

[Rich McLean]

What the GWR data shows, as was explained this morning by GWR's interim development director during the Cotswold Line Pronotion's Group online AGM is that overall traffic is currently running at around 20 per cent of the normal volumes (same goes for XC and WMR, the meeting also heard). What happens in September is going to depend heavily on whether the return to school does happen smoothly, which is clearly far from guaranteed.

It is indeed busy in the tourist areas of the South West right now - not exactly going to be a revelation in August unless we were still in full lockdown mode - but that is not the case elsewhere on GWR and what the long-term trends are going to look like is still anyone's guess.

But one thing I can predict is that it will still be the case that for large parts of the year there will be no justification whatever - based on the number of passengers travelling west of Plymouth - for all London-Penzance services to be formed of nine-car IETs past Plymouth.

Unless, of course, people think that getting rid of the recently-introduced 2/3tph frequency through Cornwall is a good idea, so lots of empty seats can be carted up and down on IETs as part of a reduced frequency timetable. As that is what would happen to balance the books on the costs of operations in Cornwall, as Clarence Yard has explained here over and over.

Agreed. If people have to get off at Plymouth from the rear set (as the front set was full) and wait for the next available service into Cornwall on a 158 or Castle set, then so be it and claim for Delay Repay. The services are every 30 mins usually, and I am sure PU/SD orders can be issued for problem trains at times of the year where they are most busiest (Christmas rush, Easter Getaway, High Summer) west of Plymouth (such as the 1004 & 1204) off Paddington, or even make them even more limited stop throughout Cornwall (say fast to Truro) with VAR alterations to remove station stops.

Even in HST days, during peak times of the year, the Limited stop 0844 as it was back then from Penzance was often Full and Standing from Truro onwards, with passengers left behind at Bodmin, Liskeard and Plymouth, where it then went fast to Exeter, then non Stop Reading and final stop Paddington. At Plymouth, several annoucements went out telling everyone to get the previous train to Exeter to change onto another London Service (from Paignton) which had plenty of room. Yet people ignored it, and limited number of people squeezed on and the rest got left behind to get the next XC to Bristol and change there.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I'm not sure the DfT ever regret anything - some still wonder why we are sending Intercity trains west of Plymouth. It is a constant battle to get the West's agenda on their radar as they are too focused on major conurbations and the services between and within their catchment area.

Frankly loadings are all over the place on GWR at the moment - some services are operating at less than 5% of normal, some at more than 50% and it varies by day and route. Getting a fix on that for diagramming isn't easy, especially when you are resource constrained in the oddest places and under instruction not to reduce booked formations.

The gradual service step up in the last few months has been designed for consistancy and deliverability and that has been a wise move because on some days the so called spare drivers and units just haven't been there.

What happens in the future is anybody's guess but at the moment everyone is focused on getting the GWR services back to their pre covid level whilst maintaining what we have got.

 

[Horizon22]

I'm not sure the DfT ever regret anything - some still wonder why we are sending Intercity trains west of Plymouth. It is a constant battle to get the West's agenda on their radar as they are too focused on major conurbations and the services between and within their catchment area.

Frankly loadings are all over the place on GWR at the moment - some services are operating at less than 5% of normal, some at more than 50% and it varies by day and route. Getting a fix on that for diagramming isn't easy, especially when you are resource constrained in the oddest places and under instruction not to reduce booked formations.

The gradual service step up in the last few months has been designed for consistancy and deliverability and that has been a wise move because on some days the so called spare drivers and units just haven't been there.

Indeed, often think some in the DfT have a rather loose understanding of the geography of the UK...

Not just by day - even within the day one service can be significantly busier than the previous hourly / half-hourly service for no discernible reason.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The number of armchair planners in this conversation is really quite funny. The GWR planning team has been absolutely snowed under for a very long time, trying to simultaneously plan, replan and optimise timetables and diagrams for the various lockdown stages, July-August, restart of schools traffic next month, return to more normality in September with associated (long overdue) full traincrew relinking, Dec 2020 timetable change, and May 2021 which includes the Bristol East Jcn blockades along with a full summer plan and other DfT mandated enhancements. Most staff are working from home, and everything is well outside of normal processes and timescales, and people are being asked on a daily basis to achieve tasks and workloads that are beyond anything normally seen. There are some very fatigued and worn out people still
putting in 120% on a daily basis and working weekends and late at night to ensure traincrew have their schedule cards and the master timetable correctly appears in TRUST and online each day.

I think the performance level currently being achieved is a tribute to the efforts that continue to be made. Nobody is saying the current plan (and the continuous flux of it) is perfect but it’s a damn sight better than it would be if everyone decided to work to rule. It’s very easy to criticise, not so easy to come up with a better plan. If there is a particular problem service then I suggest raising it through internal management channels rather than continually sniping on an online public forum, as it’s getting a little bit old.

 

[irish_rail]

The number of armchair planners in this conversation is really quite funny. The GWR planning team has been absolutely snowed under for a very long time, trying to simultaneously plan, replan and optimise timetables and diagrams for the various lockdown stages, July-August, restart of schools traffic next month, return to more normality in September with associated (long overdue) full traincrew relinking, Dec 2020 timetable change, and May 2021 which includes the Bristol East Jcn blockades along with a full summer plan and other DfT mandated enhancements. Most staff are working from home, and everything is well outside of normal processes and timescales, and people are being asked on a daily basis to achieve tasks and workloads that are beyond anything normally seen. There are some very fatigued and worn out people still
putting in 120% on a daily basis and working weekends and late at night to ensure traincrew have their schedule cards and the master timetable correctly appears in TRUST and online each day.

I think the performance level currently being achieved is a tribute to the efforts that continue to be made. Nobody is saying the current plan (and the continuous flux of it) is perfect but it’s a damn sight better than it would be if everyone decided to work to rule. It’s very easy to criticise, not so easy to come up with a better plan. If there is a particular problem service then I suggest raising it through internal management channels rather than continually sniping on an online public forum, as it’s getting a little bit old.

The reason the timetable has worked so well throughout Covid is due to the hard work and dedication of those on the ground putting themselves on the front line. Nobody is denying the people doing the rostering whilst safely tucked up at home are not doing the best they can , just that perhaps, someone higher up should have been able to step in to put the stock where it is actually needed in july and august. Does it really take a genius to deduce that certain trains going into Cornwall in the summer peak when no one is going abroad are bound to be rather cosy as a 5 car.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The reason the timetable has worked so well throughout Covid is due to the hard work and dedication of those on the ground putting themselves on the front line. Nobody is denying the people doing the rostering whilst safely tucked up at home are not doing the best they can , just that perhaps, someone higher up should have been able to step in to put the stock where it is actually needed in july and august. Does it really take a genius to deduce that certain trains going into Cornwall in the summer peak when no one is going abroad are bound to be rather cosy as a 5 car.

I didn’t in any way imply the front line staff aren’t just as responsible for the good performance. On the other hand, you clearly believe all plaudits are due to the ops side and nowhere else. Try running a badly planned conflict-ridden timetable with error-strewn crew diagrams, impossible stock diagrams etc and see how far you get, even the best operational team in the world can’t make a dogs breakfast of a plan work well. Perhaps a little more respect is due, for other departments. Everyone is on the same team after all.

incidentally, ‘rostering’ and ‘planning’ are two very separate parts of the process and your misuse of the term shows a simple lack of understanding for a process that is the absolute bedrock for a successful railway.

 

[irish_rail]

I didn’t in any way imply the front line staff aren’t just as responsible for the good performance. On the other hand, you clearly believe all plaudits are due to the ops side and nowhere else. Try running a badly planned conflict-ridden timetable with error-strewn crew diagrams, impossible stock diagrams etc and see how far you get, even the best operational team in the world can’t make a dogs breakfast of a plan work well. Perhaps a little more respect is due, for other departments. Everyone is on the same team after all.

incidentally, ‘rostering’ and ‘planning’ are two very separate parts of the process and your misuse of the term shows a simple lack of understanding for a process that is the absolute bedrock for a successful railway.

Errrrr you may want to have a look at some of the diagrams of late then. Error strewn would be kind. But I totally understand, the planners have an unprecedented workload and I by no means blame those who can only work with what they are given. I am sure the planners wouldn't be rostering 5 car 802s into Cornwall on the 1004 and 1204 given the choice. It is those higher up to blame, namely the daft.

 

[43074]

Errrrr you may want to have a look at some of the diagrams of late then. Error strewn would be kind. But I totally understand, the planners have an unprecedented workload and I by no means blame those who can only work with what they are given. I am sure the planners wouldn't be rostering 5 car 802s into Cornwall on the 1004 and 1204 given the choice. It is those higher up to blame, namely the daft.

To be fair usually diagrams are planned in a process taking place over several months, of late they have been compiled in a matter of weeks so it is not unexpected for errors to creep in.

It is ludicrous to suggest that the reliable railway over the last few months is *only* due to the teams on the ground, the timetables, diagrams and rosters and the individuals who plan these are equally crucial to achieving good levels of performance as those on the front line.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Errrrr you may want to have a look at some of the diagrams of late then. Error strewn would be kind. But I totally understand, the planners have an unprecedented workload and I by no means blame those who can only work with what they are given. I am sure the planners wouldn't be rostering 5 car 802s into Cornwall on the 1004 and 1204 given the choice. It is those higher up to blame, namely the daft.

I'm sure they wouldn't - you don't know the loads on other diagram circuits nor do you seem to appreciate that this isn't a Hornby train set where resources, even if they are available, can be switched just like that.

You continually feel that the SW passengers deserve resources at the expense of others. I and others don't. In the current strained circumstances the excess punters will either have to stand or get on a later train. It's not how anyone would wish it but we are in very strange times.

From top to bottom there has been a huge amount of effort within GWR to get the service you have got today to operate and operate on a consistent and reliable basis, which also means having the spare resources available when the booked service is in danger of falling down, not using them up to the last unit or driver.

You are dissing a lot of good people in GWR with your recent posts.

 

[LordCreed]

Errrrr you may want to have a look at some of the diagrams of late then. Error strewn would be kind.

Feel free to put your money where your mouth is and email the planning team with these so called errors...

 

[irish_rail]

Feel free to put your money where your mouth is and email the planning team with these so called errors...

The LDC have and do. NO need for me to.

 

[irish_rail]

I'm sure they wouldn't - you don't know the loads on other diagram circuits nor do you seem to appreciate that this isn't a Hornby train set where resources, even if they are available, can be switched just like that.

You continually feel that the SW passengers deserve resources at the expense of others. I and others don't. In the current strained circumstances the excess punters will either have to stand or get on a later train. It's not how anyone would wish it but we are in very strange times.

From top to bottom there has been a huge amount of effort within GWR to get the service you have got today to operate and operate on a consistent and reliable basis, which also means having the spare resources available when the booked service is in danger of falling down, not using them up to the last unit or driver.

You are dissing a lot of good people in GWR with your recent posts.

Well im sorry for wanting to look after the customers that pay my wages. If I take a holistic view of my job should I be shot down for that? Perhaps many drivers out there just drive a to b and to hell with the customer, but i do give a damn.
I find your attitude a little disturbing that you are happy for paying customers to stand on long distance journeys, particularly in the current conditions. If Reading commuters are deserving of a seat then so is a family heading off on holiday, quite possibly the first time out of their locality since lockdown. ....

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Mods, is it maybe time to lock this thread with the ever decreasing circles and far too many swipes at people who put a lot of effort into trying to both plan and operate the service at far shorter than usual timescales we are going to get nowhere further with this debate.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

There is looking out for the customers (which in my experience EVERYONE does, by the way), and then there is continually undermining and sniping at colleagues and implying agendas and incompetence in a very public forum, which does nobody any favours.

Perhaps it is time to lock this thread and others similar to it, I’m sure I’m not the only person who gets frustrated and angry each time this topic comes up.

 

[Horizon22]

Errrrr you may want to have a look at some of the diagrams of late then. Error strewn would be kind. But I totally understand, the planners have an unprecedented workload and I by no means blame those who can only work with what they are given. I am sure the planners wouldn't be rostering 5 car 802s into Cornwall on the 1004 and 1204 given the choice. It is those higher up to blame, namely the daft.

There are only around 15 9-cars that can go to Penzance. I have noted many other 9 cars rather busy to Swansea and Bristol, and yes even a few towards the Cotswolds. Yes the W.Country services are a part of it too. But please stop putting yourself as high and mighty above all the other staff in resources, planning and control & stationswho also play a part. Its a team effort not just drivers.

I agree with others that this appears to be going around in circles and should be locked if needed.

 

[Horizon22]

Well im sorry for wanting to look after the customers that pay my wages. If I take a holistic view of my job should I be shot down for that? Perhaps many drivers out there just drive a to b and to hell with the customer, but i do give a damn.
I find your attitude a little disturbing that you are happy for paying customers to stand on long distance journeys, particularly in the current conditions. If Reading commuters are deserving of a seat then so is a family heading off on holiday, quite possibly the first time out of their locality since lockdown. ....

This obsession with Reading... Every IET to London will go into Paddington via Reading obviously, so all these routes will benefit further down the line too. In the 'peak (not there is one right now) several services dont even call there, a change from pre Dec.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder of a few points:

• Any ideas/suggestions should be posted in the relevant forum section; I have moved some posts to: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...car-sets-for-gwr-services-to-cornwall.207591/
• Please do not contact moderators in any forum thread
• If you any concerns regarding any post, please use the report button. If your report relates to off topic posts, please report the first off topic post and let us know the details in your report.
• Please ensure all posts are respectful of other members; robust disagreement is fine, but let's not get too personal please

 

[irish_rail]

There are only around 15 9-cars that can go to Penzance. I have noted many other 9 cars rather busy to Swansea and Bristol, and yes even a few towards the Cotswolds. Yes the W.Country services are a part of it too. But please stop putting yourself as high and mighty above all the other staff in resources, planning and control & stationswho also play a part. Its a team effort not just drivers.

I agree with others that this appears to be going around in circles and should be locked if needed.

There may well be some rather busy 9 cars heading to Swansea, but there are trains full and standing going into Cornwall. From a safety point of view in the covid situation I have a problem with that. Once again , I am only asking for 2 services to be upgraded to full length throughout.
And as I alluded to, I am not taking a swipe at the planners, merely their masters at the DfT who clearly are mandating full length trains must not run in Cornwall for whatever reason.

 

[irish_rail]

There is looking out for the customers (which in my experience EVERYONE does, by the way), and then there is continually undermining and sniping at colleagues and implying agendas and incompetence in a very public forum, which does nobody any favours.

Perhaps it is time to lock this thread and others similar to it, I’m sure I’m not the only person who gets frustrated and angry each time this topic comes up.

Continually sniping at and undermining colleagues??? Really? That is not something I have done. I have merely argued the case for two trains a day that I feel need to be extended for safety reasons .

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Continually sniping at and undermining colleagues??? Really? That is not something I have done. I have merely argued the case for two trains a day that I feel need to be extended for safety reasons .

But there are several things wrong with the way you do it:
1. You show absolutely no regard for the views of anyone else, nor even accept the prospect that you could be wrong in your assertions
2. Your manner is confrontational, hostile and overbearing, which tends to overshadow any point you’re actually making
3. You don’t produce actual data to back up your allegations, simply anecdotes and personal views. No one doubts the WoE is busy at some times, but you don’t have any data to argue that other routes aren’t just as busy, beyond your own, vaunted opinion

and lastly

4. This is a public forum. Last time I checked there was a guest to member ratio of 5:1 currently online. This is not the place to be raising what may be an important issue, when there are internal channels that could actually get the problem sorted. Airing the laundry in public is not a professional or effective way to solve problems. It defames your employer and the competence of the industry as a whole. It is not actually an effective way to raise the issue - it is obvious you are just here to moan. As someone else said, if you have a valid suggestion then have the spine to contact the planning department. I suspect in reality you’re not sure your ‘solutions’ are actually realistic, so it’s easier and safer to anonymously snipe.

If you have a genuine solution to a genuine problem then I suggest your manager raises it through a company management call, I believe they are weekly, and many other current problems have been raised and solved through this medium.