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GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

Ashley Hill

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St James Park can only take a pair of 150s max. Anything longer 150+158 etc is too long and hence local door only. I don't see the argument for not using local door on non gangwayed sets now as it was perfectly adequate when Pacers and 150/0/1s were around in multiple, so what's different with Turbos?
 
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RPI

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I believe the extensions at St James and Lympstone Commando have been commissioned. A new repeating signal has also been commissioned to give advance warning of Exmouth Junction route to give a higher speed limit.
The extension to the up platform was meant to be commissioned on 28th February, however, this was delayed at the last minute due to works not being completed (I'm assuming lighting as this still hadnt been erected last week) but interestingly the contractors have removed the fencing that was blocking access to the the new part of the platform.
I havent worked the Exmouth line for a few days but certainly last time I went down was on a 4 car 150 and it was still "local door only" then.
 

pompeyfan

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Why wasn’t MSDO retrofitted to GWR sprinters in the same way it was to SWT when the TPE 158s became 159/1s?
 

plymothian

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The extension to the up platform was meant to be commissioned on 28th February, however, this was delayed at the last minute due to works not being completed (I'm assuming lighting as this still hadnt been erected last week) but interestingly the contractors have removed the fencing that was blocking access to the the new part of the platform.
I havent worked the Exmouth line for a few days but certainly last time I went down was on a 4 car 150 and it was still "local door only" then.
St James Park is fully operation as of last week. The caveat being that the extensions are not yet lit and so the train should wait a bit to provide light for any passengers dis/embarking in those areas (not that there are many at the moment, and people haven't learnt its no longer local door only anymore).
Both platforms are 86m long - same as Commando.

Incidentally the useable length of Polsloe is only 100m long.
 

RPI

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St James Park is fully operation as of last week. The caveat being that the extensions are not yet lit and so the train should wait a bit to provide light for any passengers dis/embarking in those areas (not that there are many at the moment, and people haven't learnt its no longer local door only anymore).
Both platforms are 86m long - same as Commando.

Incidentally the useable length of Polsloe is only 100m long.
Cheers for that, was wondering why the barriers had been moved!
 

Mitchell Hurd

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St James Park can only take a pair of 150s max. Anything longer 150+158 etc is too long and hence local door only. I don't see the argument for not using local door on non gangwayed sets now as it was perfectly adequate when Pacers and 150/0/1s were around in multiple, so what's different with Turbos?

Sorry if I've misunderstood but I think its because the Turbo carriages are a little longer than the Pacers and Class 150's.
 

Jim

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But the platform has always been too short for most trains that called there. So why is it different now?
The operational standard for a local door method of working on Turbos on GWR, is to provide a sign which instructs the driver to not release doors, which then automatically applies to all Turbo traction regardless of length calling at that station, if I remember correctly.

To enable a 4 car 165 to call at SJP, that sign would have to be erected and then ALL Turbo formations regardless of length would need to have the instruction applied of local door only, as applies at Chandlers Ford, a 3 car Turbo fits but the instruction is local door operation only to be used.

It does seem short sighted that the platform has been extended to long enough for 4 x 150 vehicles only and not future proofed for 4 x 158 / 165 vehicles for the sake of about 5 extra metres of platform.
 

RPI

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The operational standard for a local door method of working on Turbos on GWR, is to provide a sign which instructs the driver to not release doors, which then automatically applies to all Turbo traction regardless of length calling at that station, if I remember correctly.

To enable a 4 car 165 to call at SJP, that sign would have to be erected and then ALL Turbo formations regardless of length would need to have the instruction applied of local door only, as applies at Chandlers Ford, a 3 car Turbo fits but the instruction is local door operation only to be used.

It does seem short sighted that the platform has been extended to long enough for 4 x 150 vehicles only and not future proofed for 4 x 158 / 165 vehicles for the sake of about 5 extra metres of platform.
St James Park DID have the above mentioned sign on the up platform (as is at Newton St Cyres) but may now have been removed with the platform extension now open
 

Parallel

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From the Sectional Appendix:

Polsloe Bridge - 184m
Digby & Sowton - 109m
Newcourt - 124m
Topsham - 138m (Down); 123m (Up)
Exton - 128m
Lympstone Commando - 64m
Lympstone Village - 90m
Exmouth - 119m

With 2x 150 at 80m and 2x 165 at 92m.

I imagine the problem is that you can’t do local door only opening at the two Lympstone stations because there is no inter-unit gangway like there is on the 150s. I don’t know the new lengths of the platforms at St. James’ Park though similar probably applies there.

Interesting - GWR manage with this at Avoncliff, Dilton Marsh, Thornford, Chetnole etc when Turbos are working in multiple. I would imagine they could release doors at Lympstone Village if the driver pulled forward more so their door was off the platform.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Interesting - GWR manage with this at Avoncliff, Dilton Marsh, Thornford, Chetnole etc when Turbos are working in multiple. I would imagine they could release doors at Lympstone Village if the driver pulled forward more so their door was off the platform.

As outlined above this is because turbos when they stop here no matter of formation it’s always local door release only. You have to remember the guard can only release a local door on turbos all other release is done by the driver.

The small stations you list have a mix of formations calling and a small station footfall. In the case of Lympstone Village it’s one of the busier stations on the Exmouth branch and usually served by 3 car turbos (or 4 car 150s) which fit the platform, it isn’t realistic in normal operation to have this station served by local door only as happens at Avoncliff etc.

As for just fitting you have to have a certain margin of error on the platform length. It’s not much but to expect the driver to be able to stop to the millimetre is unrealistic.
 

JonathanH

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A further reduction in Turbo services at Paddington from the May timetable change (alright, it is only two less trains but still a reduction):

On weekdays, the Greenford unit continues to work to Paddington on 2P07 0354 Reading to London Paddington. However, after arriving back at Paddington at 2222 off 2G65 2155 Greenford to London Paddington, it now waits for two hours for a second Turbo to come from Oxford on 1P47 2305 Oxford to London Paddington and returns to Oxford on 1D48 0030 London Paddington to Oxford.

1D46 2318 London Paddington to Oxford which has hitherto been formed of the Turbos off Bourne End and Greenford is now a 80x unit which I think means there are three 80x at Oxford overnight (off 1D42, 1D44 and 1D46 for 1P08, 1P10 and 2L07 in the morning, not necessarily in that order).

On Saturday, the Greenford unit works to Paddington in service on 2P03 0413 Reading to London Paddington but appears to return empty to Reading Traincare Depot on 5G65 2237 London Paddington to Reading Traincare Depot.

There is still a Bedwyn to Paddington working early on Saturday mornings - 1K03 0606 Bedwyn to London Paddington returns empty to Reading Traincare Depot on 5K03 0737 London Paddington to Reading Traincare Depot with 80x on the other services. In the full timetable at present, this unit went to West Ealing to work a later service at 1907 to Bedwyn. Instead, late evening Saturday Newbury to Bedwyn shuttles are formed off a Reading starter around 8.30pm.

No Paddington Turbos on Sundays.

Notably, the first Oxford to Reading service on weekdays now goes to work Kennet Valley locals (ie Bedwyn to Newbury peak shuttles) rather than working into a Basingstoke service as it does at present and on Saturdays it would appear possible that it runs in service to Bedwyn to form the Bedwyn to Paddington service noted above (although there is also a path for a fresh Turbo off the depot).
 

Mitchell Hurd

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A further reduction in Turbo services at Paddington from the May timetable change (alright, it is only two less trains but still a reduction):

On weekdays, the Greenford unit continues to work to Paddington on 2P07 0354 Reading to London Paddington. However, after arriving back at Paddington at 2222 off 2G65 2155 Greenford to London Paddington, it now waits for two hours for a second Turbo to come from Oxford on 1P47 2305 Oxford to London Paddington and returns to Oxford on 1D48 0030 London Paddington to Oxford.

1D46 2318 London Paddington to Oxford which has hitherto been formed of the Turbos off Bourne End and Greenford is now a 80x unit which I think means there are three 80x at Oxford overnight (off 1D42, 1D44 and 1D46 for 1P08, 1P10 and 2L07 in the morning, not necessarily in that order).

On Saturday, the Greenford unit works to Paddington in service on 2P03 0413 Reading to London Paddington but appears to return empty to Reading Traincare Depot on 5G65 2237 London Paddington to Reading Traincare Depot.

There is still a Bedwyn to Paddington working early on Saturday mornings - 1K03 0606 Bedwyn to London Paddington returns empty to Reading Traincare Depot on 5K03 0737 London Paddington to Reading Traincare Depot with 80x on the other services. In the full timetable at present, this unit went to West Ealing to work a later service at 1907 to Bedwyn. Instead, late evening Saturday Newbury to Bedwyn shuttles are formed off a Reading starter around 8.30pm.

No Paddington Turbos on Sundays.

Notably, the first Oxford to Reading service on weekdays now goes to work Kennet Valley locals (ie Bedwyn to Newbury peak shuttles) rather than working into a Basingstoke service as it does at present and on Saturdays it would appear possible that it runs in service to Bedwyn to form the Bedwyn to Paddington service noted above (although there is also a path for a fresh Turbo off the depot).

Thanks for the information here :)!
 

superalbs

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166202 worked the 20:30-ish from Exeter Central to Exeter St Davids today, my first ride on one in Devon. Much better than a horrible 150!
 

REVUpminster

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So far, at Paignton, I have seen from the 13 December 2020: 166202, 203, 204, 208, 211, 218 and a bonus 165134,132 coupled together, and the odd 158.

I've probably missed more. I only stop if driving over the crossing and one is in the platform.

165132 at Paignton 23 March 2021.JPG
Got 165132 working 5Z41 training train at Paignton 23 March 2021
 
Last edited:

Dinoman

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27 Dec 2019
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Allocations for 166202 (02/04/2021):

2C97 2305 Bristol Temple Meads to Exeter St Davids
5C97 0048 Exeter St Davids to Exeter Tmd
5F05 0633 Exeter Tmd to Exeter St Davids
2F05 0648 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth
2T08 0724 Exmouth to Paignton
2F12 0917 Paignton to Exmouth
2T15 1057 Exmouth to Paignton
2F19 1255 Paignton to Exmouth
2T22 1423 Exmouth to Paignton
2F25 1552 Paignton to Exmouth
2T28 1724 Exmouth to Paignton
2E34 1950 Paignton to Exeter St Davids
5E34 2045 Exeter St Davids to Exeter Tmd
 

Apedlar12

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Allocations for 166202 (02/04/2021):

2C97 2305 Bristol Temple Meads to Exeter St Davids
5C97 0048 Exeter St Davids to Exeter Tmd
5F05 0633 Exeter Tmd to Exeter St Davids
2F05 0648 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth
2T08 0724 Exmouth to Paignton
2F12 0917 Paignton to Exmouth
2T15 1057 Exmouth to Paignton
2F19 1255 Paignton to Exmouth
2T22 1423 Exmouth to Paignton
2F25 1552 Paignton to Exmouth
2T28 1724 Exmouth to Paignton
2E34 1950 Paignton to Exeter St Davids
5E34 2045 Exeter St Davids to Exeter Tmd
Looks like 166210 is out on this diagram today vice 166202.
 

Jim

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For anyone who is interested, some turbo services are calling additionally at Dean and Mottisfont & Dunbridge Sunday 04/04 due to SWR service alterations, details seen on GWR journey check.
1617485760256.png
Only ones that are 158s are 1000 ex Westbury, 1208 ex Pompey, 1621 ex Cardiff and 2008 ex Pompey
 

HamworthyGoods

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For anyone who is interested, some turbo services are calling additionally at Dean and Mottisfont & Dunbridge Sunday 04/04 due to SWR service alterations, details seen on GWR journey check.
View attachment 93748
Only ones that are 158s are 1000 ex Westbury, 1208 ex Pompey, 1621 ex Cardiff and 2008 ex Pompey

It looks like SWR don’t have sufficient crew on the day for the planned Salisbury to Romsey services.
 

REVUpminster

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Paignton
Saw 166202 working Paignton -Exmouth out of Exeter depot. Half hour service today. Paignton has been busy over the weekend. Caravanettes parked on the green. Another 158 or 166 down from Bristol to work to Barnstaple.
 

Apedlar12

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Saw 166202 working Paignton -Exmouth out of Exeter depot. Half hour service today. Paignton has been busy over the weekend. Caravanettes parked on the green. Another 158 or 166 down from Bristol to work to Barnstaple.
158959 came down this morning for Barnstaple.

166216 is on the training diagram today.
 

PHILIPE

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Dinoman

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Devon
Allocations for 166219:

2C97 2306 Bristol Temple Meads to Exeter St Davids
5C97 0048 Exeter St Davids to Exeter Tmd
5F04 0546 Exeter Tmd to Exeter St Davids
2F04 0608 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth
2T07 0655 Exmouth to Paignton
2F11 0853 Paignton to Exmouth
2T14 1023 Exmouth to Paignton
2F18 1218 Paignton to Exmouth
2T21 1357 Exmouth to Paignton
2F26 1612 Paignton to Exmouth
2T29 1754 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids
5M72 1830 Exeter St Davids to Exeter St Davids
2M72 2111 Exeter St Davids to Bristol Temple Meads
 

REVUpminster

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I notice the training train to Goodrington has disappeared from Realtime from Monday 19 April. Does that mean train crew at Exeter have been all trained on the 165/166?
 

Apedlar12

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713
16x booked Exmouth to Paignton diagram today is being operated by 166204.

166216 on the training diagram.
 

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