GWR Class 166 Air-conditioning

[fgwrich]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #11 split from this thread.

I can't remember if it's been mentioned already or not, but are the 166s set to receive this Air Cooling system as well? I'm currently sat being roasted by the sunshine in 166205 with rather unsurprisingly it's windows are open because the air con - if at all it's working - seems to be about as affective as asthmatic breathing through a drinking straw.

 

[jimm]

I can't remember if it's been mentioned already or not, but are the 166s set to receive this Air Cooling system as well? I'm currently sat being roasted by the sunshine in 166205 with rather unsurprisingly it's windows are open because the air con - if at all it's working - seems to be about as affective as asthmatic breathing through a drinking straw.

One of the key causes of air conditioning failures on 166s has always been people opening the windows - the system can't understand what is going on, tries to cool the outside world too and then packs up.

Someone inside GWR may know if anything has changed but at the time of the direct award in 2015, air cooling installation was only mentioned in the context of 165s and 365s - with the plans for the latter being overtaken by the order for more 387s.

 

[spark001uk]

One of the key causes of air conditioning failures on 166s has always been people opening the windows - the system can't understand what is going on, tries to cool the outside world too and then packs up...

The windows are usually locked on a 166 are they not?
.

 

[fgwrich]

The windows are usually locked on a 166 are they not?
.

Yes. Although in 205s case today, a lot of high pitched whirring noise was being made from up above but nothing was coming out of the vents as I walked through the unit. All I can say is that I really hope they are receiving it, the air con in those Turbos has always been frankly, crap. And I hope the system installed is very insulated very well because on days like today, those matt black roofs will do nothing to help keep what's underneath them cool!

Unfortunately the Turbos on the branch weren't showing themselves in the best of lights today. 165103 (I think) had wheelflats giving a rough ride and no toilet. 205 having no Air Con and only the small toilet working.

 

[leomartin125]

Yes. Although in 205s case today, a lot of high pitched whirring noise was being made from up above but nothing was coming out of the vents as I walked through the unit. All I can say is that I really hope they are receiving it, the air con in those Turbos has always been frankly, crap. And I hope the system installed is very insulated very well because on days like today, those matt black roofs will do nothing to help keep what's underneath them cool!

Unfortunately the Turbos on the branch weren't showing themselves in the best of lights today. 165103 (I think) had wheelflats giving a rough ride and no toilet. 205 having no Air Con and only the small toilet working.

And yet the Chiltern 165's are kept at a remarkably high standard - Their Air Con works very well, constantly! Would like to see the GWR 165's kept at that standard, and the 166's having it's Air Con upgraded too.

Not that the East will have them for much longer, I'm sure Bristol would love some Air Con on some of the Turbo's due to be cascaded.

 

[jimm]

The windows are usually locked on a 166 are they not?
.

Depends which of umpteen statements on the subject down the years one chooses to believe -there was a period when they were apparently locked but that doesn;t seem to have been the case lately on a number of 166s.

And yet the Chiltern 165's are kept at a remarkably high standard - Their Air Con works very well, constantly! Would like to see the GWR 165's kept at that standard, and the 166's having it's Air Con upgraded too.

Not that the East will have them for much longer, I'm sure Bristol would love some Air Con on some of the Turbo's due to be cascaded.

The Chiltern 165s do not have air conditioning, they have air cooling - there is a difference.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whichever it is, it works, unlike GWR's Class 166s where whatever it is that it fitted simply doesn't, however much they shout about them theoretically having fixed it.

Depends which of umpteen statements on the subject down the years one chooses to believe -there was a period when they were apparently locked but that doesn;t seem to have been the case lately on a number of 166s.

Even when they were I discovered at one point, to the pleasure of every other passenger on the train in the 30 degree heat, some of whom asked me to open theirs as well, that my house key will open them.

 

[Parallel]

I was on a 166 last week, the windows were locked but the air-con was on. There was a yellow sticker on each window that said something like "In the unlikely event the air conditioning is ineffective, please ask onboard or station staff to open the window for you" which made me smile a little, because I imagine it's not that unlikely at all!

 

[fgwrich]

Sometimes they were fully locked, other times they had a plastic tag on them with the instructions of to only be broken in the event of an air con failure.

I do agree that time after time, no matter how many times TT, FGW and GWR shout about it being fixed it's time to remove it, standardise on Air Cooling and give the turbos the attention they really do need. Hopefully with their move to Bristol, they'll finally be about to have more attention lavished upon them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was on a 166 last week, the windows were locked but the air-con was on. There was a yellow sticker on each window that said something like "In the unlikely event the air conditioning is ineffective, please ask onboard or station staff to open the window for you" which made me smile a little, because I imagine it's not that unlikely at all!

Not even likely. Certain. The system is not fit for purpose.

 

[spark001uk]

Well, I say usually. Funny enough I'm on 205 as we speak, and it's roasting. A couple were fanning themselves with a paper, then some guy got up and said allow me, and proceeded to open a couple of windows with his house key!

 

[gallafent]

I'm currently on this train [1] , in the middle coach. The air conditioning is working: there is really quite cool air blowing strongly from the ceiling outlets. It is 29°C outside.

Guess what: all the hopper windows are open. Clearly a member of staff has opened them at some point today, and clearly this was not the correct action. The train is far hotter inside with them open than it would be if the air-con were being allowed to do its job. The air blowing from the vents really is pretty cold.

This train is one-man-operated from Oxford to London, and so there is no member of staff to ask to lock them closed after confirming the air-con is working (which it definitely is!). As a result, they're still open, and warm air is happily blowing in! I just informed a member of despatch staff at Reading, so with any luck someone will be able to lock them closed shortly, or at worst when it's turned round at Paddington.

As somebody else pointed out, running the system maxed-out like this is going to make it fail far sooner than if it's running correctly and only maintaining temperature with the windows closed.

… and yes, designing a new colour scheme with the roof coloured anything other than white or silver is an act of utmost idiocy :/

… and no, there is not a trolley service in evidence, either, despite RTT's indication — are trolley staff permitted to lock / unlock the hopper windows on these trains, I wonder, though in this case it's moot!

[1] http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C29336/2017/06/19/advanced

 

[theageofthetra]

You get the same problem with idiots opening windows on the top deck of some Londons newer buses which have quite effective air cooling.

 

[MCR247]

You get the same problem with idiots opening windows on the top deck of some Londons newer buses which have quite effective air cooling.

But if you get on a bus on a really hot day and the bus is very hot, what else would you do really?

 

[Sprinter153]

I'm currently on this train [1] , in the middle coach. The air conditioning is working: there is really quite cool air blowing strongly from the ceiling outlets. It is 29°C outside.

Guess what: all the hopper windows are open. Clearly a member of staff has opened them at some point today, and clearly this was not the correct action. The train is far hotter inside with them open than it would be if the air-con were being allowed to do its job. The air blowing from the vents really is pretty cold.

I completely agree with you. However, trying to explain to some people that it really would be better if the windows stayed shut is an incredibly arduous task, and invariably leads to things like house keys being used which has been known to bugger up the locks for when you actually need them.

Rail Gourmet staff are instructed not to operate any locks or panels on the train without the permission of the Conductor or Train Manager where present.

 

[gallafent]

But if you get on a bus on a really hot day and the bus is very hot, what else would you do really?

Check the temperature of the air coming out of the cooling ducts, and, iff it's cooler than ambient, close as many windows as I could.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I completely agree with you. However, trying to explain to some people that it really would be better if the windows stayed shut is an incredibly arduous task

Particularly given that this is rather a matter of opinion. To many people, moving air at 29 degrees is vastly preferable to static air at 25 degrees.

If the aircon is not going to cool to 22 degrees or thereabouts, preferably 21 degrees which is what it is specified to do, it's useless.

 

[MCR247]

Check the temperature of the air coming out of the cooling ducts, and, iff it's cooler than ambient, close as many windows as I could.

It may be cooler but who says its going to be as effective as required?

 

[Mikey C]

The 166 I was on on Saturday had its windows open. There was also a reasonable cool but not cold draught from the aircon. Whether this would have been enough to cool the carriage properly is doubtful, but yes it does seem like a bit of a farce really...

As a slightly off topic question, the BREL Networkers have eyeball vents, if there a reason why the related 165s and 166s don't have this as well?

 

[fgwrich]

The 166 I was on on Saturday had its windows open. There was also a reasonable cool but not cold draught from the aircon. Whether this would have been enough to cool the carriage properly is doubtful, but yes it does seem like a bit of a farce really...

As a slightly off topic question, the BREL Networkers have eyeball vents, if there a reason why the related 165s and 166s don't have this as well?

Could it be more down to Interior styling choices? I noticed yesterday that the 166s have similar if not the same Ceiling design as the 158s. Also noticed a lot of 166s running around with their windows open yesterday as well.

 

[bramling]

Rail Gourmet staff are instructed not to operate any locks or panels on the train without the permission of the Conductor or Train Manager where present.

Terrible policy. The logical extension of this is one could end up with windows remaining locked in a scenario like the Kentish Town fiasco because "I'm not allowed to unlock them".

I've no issue with others, including off-duty staff, unlocking windows if the train is too hot, particularly on a DOO service - although ideally they should try and close them before the train goes through a washing plant!

 

[Paul180]

The 166 I was on on Saturday had its windows open. There was also a reasonable cool but not cold draught from the aircon. Whether this would have been enough to cool the carriage properly is doubtful, but yes it does seem like a bit of a farce really...

As a slightly off topic question, the BREL Networkers have eyeball vents, if there a reason why the related 165s and 166s don't have this as well?

I don't know but the BR Networkers do not have air con plus I think you only get the eyeball vents on the cl365, cl465/9? I don't think you get them on the cl466.

 

[Mikey C]

I don't know but the BR Networkers do not have air con plus I think you only get the eyeball vents on the cl365, cl465/9? I don't think you get them on the cl466.

When the 465s were introduced, the BREL/ABB ones (465/0 and 465/1) had eyeball vents, whereas the Metro Cammell ones didn't. The 466s were also Met Cam so didn't.

I've never seen these eyeball vents elsewhere on trains, not proper aircon, but you could get quite a pleasant breeze, and direct it onto your face like the vents in your car. Sadly they don't seem to be working now on the 465s.

The 365s were also ABB built and have the vents too

The 165s/166s don't. I'm guessing that any such system would suck in the diesel pollution from the engines!

 

[Deepgreen]

But if you get on a bus on a really hot day and the bus is very hot, what else would you do really?

Exactly - if I get on a 166 and the temperature inside is hugely higher than the already-hot outside, I must assume the air con has failed/is not effective (the norm) and open the hoppers for the sake of some relief. If the inside is sweltering and the hoppers are shut, clearly the system is useless.

 

[Deepgreen]

Terrible policy. The logical extension of this is one could end up with windows remaining locked in a scenario like the Kentish Town fiasco because "I'm not allowed to unlock them".

I've no issue with others, including off-duty staff, unlocking windows if the train is too hot, particularly on a DOO service - although ideally they should try and close them before the train goes through a washing plant!

Although judging by some of the 166s I use on the North Downs line that may be the only clean they get inside (as distinct from litter picking, which is OK)!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the eyeball vents are a great idea, they should be fitted to all trains even with aircon as they are to just about all road coaches and aircraft. Moving air is much more pleasant than static air.

 

[bramling]

I think the eyeball vents are a great idea, they should be fitted to all trains even with aircon as they are to just about all road coaches and aircraft. Moving air is much more pleasant than static air.

Yes they're one of the features which makes the 365 a highly popular train. They also have particularly effective hopper windows.

 

[trac]

I was travelling on a 166 yesterday and the environment inside was quite nice. It did get a bit warmer towards Paddington but it was definitly cooler than outside.. I can't remember what unit it was as a cool 166 is a rare thing.

edit - it was the 10:18 Reading to London Paddington on the 20/06/2017