GWR Class 319 / 769 information & discussion.

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RichT54

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Is there any truth to the rumours that the GWR 769s will only ever operate on diesel power?

It's not clear whether there may be compatibility issues with the equipment fitted to the 769s and the supply infrastructure; or whether it would be due to a lack of capacity in the electrical supply, for example on the sections with third rail between Reading and Gatwick.
 

Scottychoo

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Is there any truth to the rumours that the GWR 769s will only ever operate on diesel power?

It's not clear whether there may be compatibility issues with the equipment fitted to the 769s and the supply infrastructure; or whether it would be due to a lack of capacity in the electrical supply, for example on the sections with third rail between Reading and Gatwick.
Which begs the question why waste money on a old knackered turbo replacement
 

JN114

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Is there any truth to the rumours that the GWR 769s will only ever operate on diesel power?

It's not clear whether there may be compatibility issues with the equipment fitted to the 769s and the supply infrastructure; or whether it would be due to a lack of capacity in the electrical supply, for example on the sections with third rail between Reading and Gatwick.
Electrical Supply constraints I understand. Nothing to prevent them being used on AC where wires are fitted, and they should see a bit of AC running with the work planned for them.

DC was always going to be a pain as they can’t changeover on the move, and the changeover points (Wokingham, Ash, Shalford and Reigate stations) aren’t always calls on all services.
 

JonathanH

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Which begs the question why waste money on a old knackered turbo replacement
Without 769s there isn't enough rolling stock to meet GWR's service aspirations (as evidenced that it seems certain they will run two thirds of the 3tph service on the North Downs Line until the 769s turn up).
 

Beemax

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Electrical Supply constraints I understand. Nothing to prevent them being used on AC where wires are fitted, and they should see a bit of AC running with the work planned for them.
Presumably Reading to Didcot, but not a lot else.
 

Hophead

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Even if Reigate isn't a call for every service (which I'm surprised to hear), then Redhill certainly is, the stretch down to Gatwick could be utilised on every journey (subject to there being enough electricity to go round). Whether it's worth having the DC capability in place for such a relatively brief period is another matter).
 

gallafent

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It's pretty astonishing to hear that there will be units capable of running on 3rd rail, running on tracks with 3rd rail present, powered by diesel. Surely if power supply upgrades would be required to achieve this on certain sections then such upgrades must be among the lowest conceivable hanging fruit to reduce the use of diesel on the railway, once the 769s are in service. Fingers crossed such upgrades will be prioritised.

Changing over to diesel when stationary at each stop for which the statement "There is not continuous 3rd rail to the next stop" is true and conversely to 3rd rail electric supply when the statement "There is continuous 3rd rail to the next stop" is true would not be open heart rocket surgery, too, if that's part of the reason. That would at least lead to some running on diesel over 3rd rail, but less than "all of it" as it's implied above will be the case.

Genuinely somewhat flabbergasted by this revelation … replacing 1990+ Networker diesel stock with 1987+ Mk3 electric stock reengineered to run on diesel is definitely a questionable definition of "upgrade" to my mind! :)
 

samuelmorris

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It's pretty astonishing to hear that there will be units capable of running on 3rd rail, running on tracks with 3rd rail present, powered by diesel. Surely if power supply upgrades would be required to achieve this on certain sections then such upgrades must be among the lowest conceivable hanging fruit to reduce the use of diesel on the railway, once the 769s are in service. Fingers crossed such upgrades will be prioritised.

Changing over to diesel when stationary at each stop for which the statement "There is not continuous 3rd rail to the next stop" is true and conversely to 3rd rail electric supply when the statement "There is continuous 3rd rail to the next stop" is true would not be open heart rocket surgery, too, if that's part of the reason. That would at least lead to some running on diesel over 3rd rail, but less than "all of it" as it's implied above will be the case.

Genuinely somewhat flabbergasted by this revelation … replacing 1990+ Networker diesel stock with 1987+ Mk3 electric stock reengineered to run on diesel is definitely a questionable definition of "upgrade" to my mind! :)
Removal of unnecessary diesel traction from the network is very much bottom of the agenda, below all other considerations.
 

samuelmorris

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Are they scheduled to work on the Thames Valley branches and then overhead into Paddington?
I seem to recall any services from the mainline onto the thames valley branches were ruled out. They would be confined to branches as the existing DMUs are.

So it seems. Unfortunate. Yet another reason to use the (currently hybrid, next will be electric) car instead.
You're not wrong - railways will still be running on diesel long after the sale of new petrol/diesel cars has been banned and indeed, will potentially be one of the least green forms of transport in about 30 years' time (notwithstanding air travel of course). Getting in your car instead of using the train to help save the environment is a very unfortunate state of affairs but outside of the Southeast, that's basically where we'll be soon.
 

Clarence Yard

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Are they scheduled to work on the Thames Valley branches and then overhead into Paddington?
No. North Downs, Basingstoke, Henley and Bourne End services only. They will use the AC in getting to and from Reading Depot which will also help with the Reading Depot noise nuisance issue. The situation with "no capacity" on the existing 3rd rail supply on the Southern is being disputed.
 

trainmania100

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Is there any chance well see 769s on the reading to Gatwick this year? I've seen pictures floating around of a 769 already in GWR livery, how far is this away from being tested on the north downs line?
 

Bob Price

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Is there any chance well see 769s on the reading to Gatwick this year? I've seen pictures floating around of a 769 already in GWR livery, how far is this away from being tested on the north downs line?
Once the Northern ones are working and in service, followed by the TfW ones (rumoured training starting this week) then Porterbrook will turn it's attention to GWR. Probably quite a few months off yet. For example TfW only have two of their 9 so far, not sure how many Northern have of theirs. GWR were always third in line.
 

JN114

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No, there’s definitely one in Reading depot.
Not a 769 or Green.

There was a green-painted 319 photo doing the rounds a couple of months ago when it emerged from Corrosion repairs and repaint. But it hadn’t been for conversion to 769 yet, and hasn’t been on Reading depot.
 
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Is there any news on the next GWR Direct Award (due to start in April)? I think Clarence Yard mentioned a couple of months back that the new contract would have implications for Turbo cascades.
 

PHILIPE

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alastair

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Electrical Supply constraints I understand. Nothing to prevent them being used on AC where wires are fitted, and they should see a bit of AC running with the work planned for them.

DC was always going to be a pain as they can’t changeover on the move, and the changeover points (Wokingham, Ash, Shalford and Reigate stations) aren’t always calls on all services.
Definitely no juice rail at Shalford, presumably any changeover would be done at Guildford - they all call there anyway.
 

Deepgreen

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Definitely no juice rail at Shalford, presumably any changeover would be done at Guildford - they all call there anyway.
All NDL passenger workings call at Wokingham and Reigate. In essence, then, all we'll get from the 769s (if ever) is four car trains rather than three? How much has been spent on developing their multi-source power capability only to be unable to use it? Can the third rail south of Redhill really not take two extra electric units per hour?! What a farce.
 

Deepgreen

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I seem to recall any services from the mainline onto the thames valley branches were ruled out. They would be confined to branches as the existing DMUs are.


You're not wrong - railways will still be running on diesel long after the sale of new petrol/diesel cars has been banned and indeed, will potentially be one of the least green forms of transport in about 30 years' time (notwithstanding air travel of course). Getting in your car instead of using the train to help save the environment is a very unfortunate state of affairs but outside of the Southeast, that's basically where we'll be soon.
It's certainly a worry, but, even with electric cars, the juice has to be generated somehow. Will we actually get to a situation where, per passenger mile at, say, 50% rail and car occupancy, cars are more efficient/less unfriendly? Then there's the issues of road space, noise, safety, and so on. Rail will have to make sure it stays less harmful in all these areas to sustain itself.
 

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