GWR Class 800

[Defiance149]

Can anyone confirm which 800 was delivered from Newton Aycliffe to Doncaster last Wednesday (17th) please?

 

[PaulHarding150]

Question for the forum regarding the formation of 2 x Class 800 trains.

I caught the 0726 from Cardiff this morning which was running to London.

The display boards announced that first class was in carriages 4, 5, 6 & 7.

First class was indeed in the middle of the train (of course separated into two halfs) and the two quiet carriages where at the extreme ends of the train.

I had seat reserved in carriage C. The train arrives in Cardiff with carriage G at the front (London end) the second carriage in was H then J (obviously no I ro avoid confusion with a 1).

What formation are 2 x 5 car 800s meant to be in? First class in the middle or at each end? The carriage arrangement seemed odd, not to mention the display boards showing numbers not letters.

 

[JN114]

In theory, First Class on a 10 car set should be at the London End of each set; but with Hitachi struggling to produce enough units for diagrams full stop; turning trips and forming the trains up correctly are niceties that have fallen by the wayside of late. The traincrew can and should make sure the lower lettered set of coaches are at the Country End of the train on departure from Paddington - a brief to that effect including a refresher on how to “swap” the coach letters has gone out quite recently.

 

[northernbelle]

I travelled on 3 IETs today between Bristol and Swindon. All had seat reservations and all were correctly formed - hopefully some progress being made.

 

[43055]

Question for the forum regarding the formation of 2 x Class 800 trains.

I caught the 0726 from Cardiff this morning which was running to London.

The display boards announced that first class was in carriages 4, 5, 6 & 7.

First class was indeed in the middle of the train (of course separated into two halfs) and the two quiet carriages where at the extreme ends of the train.

I had seat reserved in carriage C. The train arrives in Cardiff with carriage G at the front (London end) the second carriage in was H then J (obviously no I ro avoid confusion with a 1).

What formation are 2 x 5 car 800s meant to be in? First class in the middle or at each end? The carriage arrangement seemed odd, not to mention the display boards showing numbers not letters.

Sounds like a normal day on the MML to me. The GWR 800 leaflet does suggest coach A should be at the front and first class is at the London end of each set. Now there's more and more diagrams becoming 800 and 802 operation which now have reversals I would it's problem becoming quite difficult to keep each set the same way around so its in the same formation each time.

 

[pt_mad]

Did anyone catch Paddington 24/7 tonight? Section on two of the Hitachi IETs being released from the factory in Italy. The guy, presumably from Hitachi, that shows the camera team around the interior is very proud of the quality, including the seats. Points to the quality of the seat and the covers and mentions there's a lot of leg room.

Mind you, he also points to inside the accessible toilet and says sensors are working and hand dryer is working. Should hope so?

 

[Butts]

Did anyone catch Paddington 24/7 tonight? Section on two of the Hitachi IETs being released from the factory in Italy. The guy, presumably from Hitachi, that shows the camera team around the interior is very proud of the quality, including the seats. Points to the quality of the seat and the covers and mentions there's a lot of leg room.

Mind you, he also points to inside the accessible toilet and says sensors are working and hand dryer is working. Should hope so?

Shame he didn't have a mock up of a GWR HST 1st Class Carriage to contrast it with. An armchair versus an ironing board - no contest !!!

 

[Reliablebeam]

A quick technical question for those in the know - after last weeks incident with the dewirement, what is the state of electric running for the 80x's between Didcot and London? I haven't been travelling much these last two weeks so have not seen for myself

 

[AlexNL]

Mind you, he also points to inside the accessible toilet and says sensors are working and hand dryer is working. Should hope so?

Well, it's the same factory that built the Fyra V250 trains... back then they even had difficulties with properly fitting out the magnet which holds the toilet paper roll in place

 

[JN114]

A quick technical question for those in the know - after last weeks incident with the dewirement, what is the state of electric running for the 80x's between Didcot and London? I haven't been travelling much these last two weeks so have not seen for myself

No change from status quo. Certain units occasionally have diesel only restrictions for various unrelated reasons. Not being as involved in the HSS side of things as I was a few months ago I’m unsure whether there are still drivers who only sign the things on Diesel; but that’s also a possibility.

 

[Railperf]

Is it right to presume that 802's now cover most of the daily Cotswold diagrams through Oxford to Worcester, Hereford etc?

 

[Reliablebeam]

No change from status quo. Certain units occasionally have diesel only restrictions for various unrelated reasons. Not being as involved in the HSS side of things as I was a few months ago I’m unsure whether there are still drivers who only sign the things on Diesel; but that’s also a possibility.

Thanks for your response!

 

[JN114]

Is it right to presume that 802's now cover most of the daily Cotswold diagrams through Oxford to Worcester, Hereford etc?

Mostly 800s at present, occasional 802 substitutes.

 

[jimm]

Is it right to presume that 802's now cover most of the daily Cotswold diagrams through Oxford to Worcester, Hereford etc?

The 802s never will cover most of the Cotswold Line diagrams - the only 802s likely to be seen west of Oxford in the long run will be nine-car sets in the peaks and on the busiest weekend services - 802101 has made the odd appearance so far. The rest of the time, the line will be the domain of five-car 800s.

 

[cactustwirly]

Is it right to presume that 802's now cover most of the daily Cotswold diagrams through Oxford to Worcester, Hereford etc?

The weekday timetable still has a fair amount of HSTs, however I believe it's mostly 800s on a weekend

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

There’s been heavily mis-quoted source suggesting some of the 802 fleet was ordered for the Cotswold line. Not so - although many 9-car sets will (if the enhanced timetable ever happens) work Paddington-Oxford fasts. Anything outstabling at Worcester or Hereford should also end up as an 802, as the 800s prefer to be safely tucked up in their depots overnight. But the bulk of the daytime service to Worcester/Malvern/Hereford will be 800s.

Similarly the Paddington-Bedwyn fasts are actually planned for 5-car 800 operation, released off other work by the 802s. Despite many sources (including Modern Railways) suggesting some of the 5-car 802s were ordered for Bedwyn work.

 

[father_jack]

Inspection of 800 025 and 017 going on at Maliphant after scraping noise from roof encountered in the Severn tunnel on 1215 Paddington to Cardiff today. A Cardiff-Portsmouth was cancelled at Severn Tunnel Junction to examine the line and long delays were caused to many other services. For example http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40082/2018/10/23/advanced

 

[jimm]

There’s been heavily mis-quoted source suggesting some of the 802 fleet was ordered for the Cotswold line. Not so - although many 9-car sets will (if the enhanced timetable ever happens) work Paddington-Oxford fasts. Anything outstabling at Worcester or Hereford should also end up as an 802, as the 800s prefer to be safely tucked up in their depots overnight. But the bulk of the daytime service to Worcester/Malvern/Hereford will be 800s.

Similarly the Paddington-Bedwyn fasts are actually planned for 5-car 800 operation, released off other work by the 802s. Despite many sources (including Modern Railways) suggesting some of the 5-car 802s were ordered for Bedwyn work.

Part of the initial order for 802s was always intended to help out on the Cotswold Line during the peaks - but just a couple of the nine-car sets, I think.

I seem to recall Clarence Yard has explained this previously, along with the background to the follow-up order for seven more nine car sets, which, as you say allows for a reshuffle of 800s to other duties, such as Paddington-Bedwyn.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The original 9 car 802 order specifically included a set for the Cotswolds. It was originally diagrammed in the justification to the DfT to be one set doing a morning working before going west and the reverse happening with another set in the afternoon/evening.

What the DfT had as passenger loadings for the North Cotswold line were completely out of date and their proposed mostly 5 car diagrams were inadequate for the task.

 

[CMRail]

The original 9 car 802 order specifically included a set for the Cotswolds. It was originally diagrammed in the justification to the DfT to be one set doing a morning working before going west and the reverse happening with another set in the afternoon/evening.

What the DfT had as passenger loadings for the North Cotswold line were completely out of date and their proposed mostly 5 car diagrams were inadequate for the task.

Agreed. The original Cheltenham plans were that only one morning service and one evening service were going to be 10 car (before 9 cars were converted to bi mode) and anyone travelling between 7 and 9 in the morning and 5 and 7 in the evening on both of the Cotswolds services will know that would not reach standards.

 

[Envoy]

The problems of joining the 2 sections continued today at Swansea. 1L42 left 23 minutes late having failed to connect the Carmarthen section with the section waiting at Swansea. From Swindon on - it was pretty rammed.

So, here we are, 1 year from the introduction of these trains - following extensive testing - and still this problem persists. I rally do wonder whether they would have more luck if they used P4 at Swansea where the curve is less? Incredibly, these long trains can’t use P4 at Swansea due to the poor surface of the platform - which they are only now getting around to doing a new surface. You would have though that this would have been done prior to their introduction in order to have more platforms available.

I also note that the temperature varies considerably from coach to coach. Some can be too hot whilst others are rather chilly although some are spot on. Why can’t Hitachi engineers go through the trains when loaded with passengers, figure out which coaches have a pleasant temperature, note the settings and then use the same settings for all coaches?

 

[Pete_uk]

Do we know how much Hitachi get every time a service is run?

 

[SamYeager]

Do we know how much Hitachi get every time a service is run?

I'm pretty certain that would be classed as commercially confidential and not available to the public.

 

[43096]

All 800s and 802s are now restricted to diesel traction only due to concerns about VCB (Vacuum Circuit Beaker) operation.

Going well then... Good thing DfT changed the order so all the GWR sets had diesels.

 

[59CosG95]

All 800s and 802s are now restricted to diesel traction only due to concerns about VCB (Vacuum Circuit Beaker) operation.

Going well then... Good thing DfT changed the order so all the GWR sets had diesels.

Vacuum Circuit Beaker? Perhaps Dr Bunsen Honeydew was part of the project team.

 

[JN114]

Vacuum Circuit Beaker? Perhaps Dr Bunsen Honeydew was part of the project team.

Standard component on all AC Electric Traction. Large circuit breaker between the Pantograph and Train Line which isolates the the train electrically from live OHLE when tripped. Circuit Breaker is in a vacuum to prevent arcing as it operates. Makes a loud bang when operated; can be heard twice through neutral sections.

 

[59CosG95]

Standard component on all AC Electric Traction. Large circuit breaker between the Pantograph and Train Line which isolates the the train electrically from live OHLE when tripped. Circuit Breaker is in a vacuum to prevent arcing as it operates. Makes a loud bang when operated; can be heard twice through neutral sections.

Thanks for the info there @JN114, however I think my reference to Beaker from the Muppet Show went amiss!

 

[EE Andy b1]

Vacuum Circuit Beaker? Perhaps Dr Bunsen Honeydew was part of the project team.

Lol. The Muppets!

 

[samuelmorris]

I didn't even notice the typo at first. Skimming through the post I thought it was a reference to the vaccuum cleaner from Muppetvision. A bit too obscure!

I'd be curious to know what about the VCBs has prompted this, presumably something fairly concerning. Could be problematic for the ECML if not resolved swiftly, the diesel performance of 800s isn't going to cut it among 125mph traffic up to Doncaster...

 

[trebor79]

Well it can get a bit exciting when such components fail.
Presumably they've found something on a routine inspection and need to check the rest of the fleet.
If VCB fails whilst opening, you end up with a big bang, flash and molten copper spraying all over the place.
Or it could fail in a closed position, which I guess would have some interesting consequences for the rest of the power train if the unit switched to diesel and was unable to disconnect from the 25kV supply.

I've seen the aftermath of a relatively piddly 415v contactor failure. Not pretty and the explosion blew the door off the cubicle and smashed some teeth of the chap who was stood near.