GWR Class 800

[JN114]

The workaround is the two units come on/off Long Rock separately; so they’re 2x 5 cars on the depot; 10 from the station.

 

[TEW]

Presumably that only works for one or two services before you run out of space on Long Rock though?

 

[Bikeman78]

The diesel switch over was obvious and the engine noise (i was in the front coach of a 2 train set) noticeable but not intolerable. Much better in a big, isolated box on the front than under the floor.

Overall: A good modern train.

The diesel engines on the 800s don't bother me in the slightest, they are pretty quiet. I had my first run to Bristol Parkway on electric power today on the 08:45. Whilst the performance was undoubtedly excellent, the point to point times weren't much better than an HST can do. I've had numerous runs Pad to Reading in 23 minutes and Reading to Swindon in 24 minutes. They'll have to tighten up the dwell times to make much difference.

 

[Bikeman78]

It’s your imagination, the lighting is the same across all fleets. There is a BS EN standard for rolling stock lighting, the 80x meets this. The standard was published in either 2001 or 2002, I forget which and gives limits for lux and glare, stock built before this would be to a different standard, but would have to meet it if refurbed.

No doubt the refurbished GWR HSTs complied with this standard. Within weeks they were switched to half lighting and most have remained so ever since!

 

[reddragon]

The diesel engines on the 800s don't bother me in the slightest, they are pretty quiet. I had my first run to Bristol Parkway on electric power today on the 08:45. Whilst the performance was undoubtedly excellent, the point to point times weren't much better than an HST can do. I've had numerous runs Pad to Reading in 23 minutes and Reading to Swindon in 24 minutes. They'll have to tighten up the dwell times to make much difference.

I often used to time Paddington to Reading in under 20 mins in the contra-peak direction, 2+7 & light loads and it felt a lot faster than a HST does today! Ye good olde days

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seats again (sorry!)

As I noted above, at the weekend I found that the Class 802 moquette seats were vastly superior to the original fabric ones. The cushion appears to be different both in hardness and shape so you don't feel the support under the base as badly and the headrest doesn't cut into your shoulder as much either if you're tall - they make the seat *almost* acceptable, and not *much* different from the perfectly acceptable Desiro seat (Grammer E3000).

Is this new cushion and cover going to be fitted to the existing ones?

 

[JN114]

No new cushions. Only new seat covering material.

 

[TractiveEffort]

No doubt the refurbished GWR HSTs complied with this standard. Within weeks they were switched to half lighting and most have remained so ever since!

Not sure if they did have to comply, if the refurb was signed off before this standard and it may we’ll be that half lighting was not signed off, if it was under the new standard, but no one has ever raised it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No new cushions. Only new seat covering material.

Is the cushion actually different on the 802s, like it feels it is, or is it just that they are newer and have not yet collapsed?

 

[JN114]

Is the cushion actually different on the 802s, like it feels it is, or is it just that they are newer and have not yet collapsed?

Neither.

No they’re not any different, but the seats on the 800s haven’t “collapsed” either - they’re as they were when they first came into service; it’s not sprung so it can’t collapse.

I strongly suspect it’s the Placebo effect. People wanted the 80x to be rubbish; so subconsciously override their own feelings to arrive at a negative opinion. You’ve gone on one thinking it’s different, improved and had a better experience; but factually all that’s changed is the covering material.

 

[Bletchleyite]

NI strongly suspect it’s the Placebo effect. People wanted the 80x to be rubbish; so subconsciously override their own feelings to arrive at a negative opinion. You’ve gone on one thinking it’s different, improved and had a better experience; but factually all that’s changed is the covering material.

Nope, it absolutely is different. Maybe the moquette itself is what is helping, but the cloth seat definitely "fell down" either side of the supporting bar on the original seat which really hurts my backside (literally like sitting on a fence or gate), and the newer Class 802 moquette didn't (you could feel the supporting bar but only just). I travelled on both types on the same day.

if you don't think foam seats can collapse, try a 350/1 then a 350/3 (or two seats on a /1 where the base has been replaced on one of them, as there have been some piecemeal replacements on the worst seats) - they are exactly the same seats but you will notice a massive difference.

 

[JN114]

If you say so. In terms of materials they are identical. Having travelled on many varieties of rolling stock I’ve never encountered what you describe; but perhaps my backside isn’t as sensitive as yours clearly is.

 

[43096]

Seats again (sorry!)

As I noted above, at the weekend I found that the Class 802 moquette seats were vastly superior to the original fabric ones. The cushion appears to be different both in hardness and shape so you don't feel the support under the base as badly and the headrest doesn't cut into your shoulder as much either if you're tall - they make the seat *almost* acceptable, and not *much* different from the perfectly acceptable Desiro seat (Grammer E3000).

But.... the Desiro is a regional train and the IEP has delusions of being an InterCity train. The seating in the 800/802s is utterly unacceptable for an IC train.

 

[irish_rail]

Nope, it absolutely is different. Maybe the moquette itself is what is helping, but the cloth seat definitely "fell down" either side of the supporting bar on the original seat which really hurts my backside (literally like sitting on a fence or gate), and the newer Class 802 moquette didn't (you could feel the supporting bar but only just). I travelled on both types on the same day.

if you don't think foam seats can collapse, try a 350/1 then a 350/3 (or two seats on a /1 where the base has been replaced on one of them, as there have been some piecemeal replacements on the worst seats) - they are exactly the same seats but you will notice a massive difference.

I wish it was true but I passed on an 802 yesterday and very definitely had the metal bar digging into my posterior. I think it is just a case of some seats are in a better state than others. Kind of a farce for a brand new fleet....

 

[387star]

Seats again (sorry!)

As I noted above, at the weekend I found that the Class 802 moquette seats were vastly superior to the original fabric ones. The cushion appears to be different both in hardness and shape so you don't feel the support under the base as badly and the headrest doesn't cut into your shoulder as much either if you're tall - they make the seat *almost* acceptable, and not *much* different from the perfectly acceptable Desiro seat (Grammer E3000).

Is this new cushion and cover going to be fitted to the existing ones?

Taking too long to retrofit

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

But.... the Desiro is a regional train and the IEP has delusions of being an InterCity train. The seating in the 800/802s is utterly unacceptable for an IC train.

Well I don’t know how they can call the GWR HST style Grammar seats IC either! They’re high density more suited to a regional train I think!

 

[TractiveEffort]

I haven’t found any issues with the seats, I find them OK, BRI-PAD and return and no problem.

 

[Harbornite]

If you say so. In terms of materials they are identical. Having travelled on many varieties of rolling stock I’ve never encountered what you describe; but perhaps my backside isn’t as sensitive as yours clearly is.

Indeed. I remember my first trip on one of the things back in 2018; the seats were definitely noticeably 'harder' than anything I'd ever encountered on a train before but I soon got used to it, they're really not that bad.

 

[Harbornite]

But.... the Desiro is a regional train and the IEP has delusions of being an InterCity train. The seating in the 800/802s is utterly unacceptable for an IC train.

In your opinion perhaps.

 

[Harbornite]

The interiors were developed by DCA Design International, who are based in Warwick.

The company also responsible for styling le shuttle locomotives and class 90, among other things.

 

[43096]

In your opinion perhaps.

No, definitely in my opinion.

 

[M7R]

Foam goes soft over time, so it could be that some of the new covers have been fitted to new but the same spec foams, meaning they feel better than the older cloth ones which have already started to go softer and therefore because there is very little foam it bottoms out.

On the lighting front 150lx is really low. I have to measure lighting in areas I do some work and we have a min of 500lux for inspections. Most single strip lights are over 1000 lux easy normally around 1200 lux when about 1-2m above a work bench.

Even a room with very old and yellow uplighters than that noticbly gloomy was 350lux.

And standing outside on an overcast cloudy day with no noticeable sun at all was 3000 lux! And it wasn’t in any way bright outside.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wish it was true but I passed on an 802 yesterday and very definitely had the metal bar digging into my posterior. I think it is just a case of some seats are in a better state than others. Kind of a farce for a brand new fleet....

As I noted above, I had a quick nose underneath a Grammer E3000 in a 350/2 (more comfortable despite being 3+2) and noted that there is a simple design flaw in the Class 800 seat - the E3000 has a hard plastic base on the cushion stopping you feeling the metal bar (which is there in exactly the same location), whereas the 800 seat doesn't. I have no idea who thought this design was acceptable, but they deserve the sack. (If new fire regulations prevented plastic, a piece of sheet steel would achieve the same thing).

Other things about the seat (headrest, height, hardness, h...uprightness ) are just a matter of opinion, but this is just appalling design. If I'd bought one for my lounge, I'd be taking it back and demanding a refund as not fit for purpose.

 

[ValleyLines142]

802105 on the 0745 Paddington to Swansea, just left Cardiff six minutes late.

 

[PHILIPE]

Gauge testing run today from Laira to Newquay and return, 802007 and 802012

 

[fgwrich]

Well I don’t know how they can call the GWR HST style Grammar seats IC either! They’re high density more suited to a regional train I think!

Well, they’re certainly good enough and have been good enough for the RailJet fleet in Austria, and they’re hardly reagional trains.

The company also responsible for styling le shuttle locomotives and class 90, among other things.

As well as another relatively disliked product of the naughties, the Bombardier Voyager fleet for Virgin.

Yet managed to create the 22000 fleet ICRs for Irish Rail. A spec based around a Mk3, producing an actual Intercity spec DMU.

No, definitely in my opinion.

And mine too!

As I noted above, I had a quick nose underneath a Grammer E3000 in a 350/2 (more comfortable despite being 3+2) and noted that there is a simple design flaw in the Class 800 seat - the E3000 has a hard plastic base on the cushion stopping you feeling the metal bar (which is there in exactly the same location), whereas the 800 seat doesn't. I have no idea who thought this design was acceptable, but they deserve the sack. (If new fire regulations prevented plastic, a piece of sheet steel would achieve the same thing).

Other things about the seat (headrest, height, hardness, h...uprightness ) are just a matter of opinion, but this is just appalling design. If I'd bought one for my lounge, I'd be taking it back and demanding a refund as not fit for purpose.

I’m glad im not the only one to notice the ridiculous metal bar running through the middle of the seat base either. I had to take a few of the IETs last year with the flat cloth seat covers then and it was becoming more noticeable. The newer coverings tend to hide it to some extent but after sitting in the same seat for a pretty tedious journey from Plymouth to Reading in one, you do start to notice it after a while. Who thought to have that bar, running central through the seat, really hasn’t a clue on what it’s like to use them!

Incidentally the seats are another little grip of mine - but not so for the aforementioned reasons. Why do they have to have 2 bases and still be bolted to the wall? I’ve noticed in the base closer to the wall seems to end up either as a foot trap or a dirt trap.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m glad im not the only one to notice the ridiculous metal bar running through the middle of the seat base either. I had to take a few of the IETs last year with the flat cloth seat covers then and it was becoming more noticeable. The newer coverings tend to hide it to some extent but after sitting in the same seat for a pretty tedious journey from Plymouth to Reading in one, you do start to notice it after a while. Who thought to have that bar, running central through the seat, really hasn’t a clue on what it’s like to use them!

The bar isn't unusual - the Grammer E3000 series regional seat as used on all pre-Class 700 Desiros have it as well. The thing is, those also have a piece of thick plastic on the bottom of the cushion that prevents you feeling it - the Class 800 seats omit this. This might have been for fire reasons, but surely a piece of steel sheet could be used instead?

As for the mountings, I'm surprised they are not cantilevered as is the trend.

 

[Pete_uk]

Gauge testing run today from Laira to Newquay and return, 802007 and 802012

What happens if it doesn't fit?

BTW I think it was 800008 on 1G11 on Monday (Paddington to Cheltenham) I got on at Stroud. I was taken aback by the initial acceleration from 0. They have always seemed to get going well with a extra kick in power around 10mph but this was from the get go.

It also needed a dam good wash.

 

[Goldfish62]

Neither.

No they’re not any different, but the seats on the 800s haven’t “collapsed” either - they’re as they were when they first came into service; it’s not sprung so it can’t collapse.

I strongly suspect it’s the Placebo effect. People wanted the 80x to be rubbish; so subconsciously override their own feelings to arrive at a negative opinion. You’ve gone on one thinking it’s different, improved and had a better experience; but factually all that’s changed is the covering material.

Of course seats collapse when the foam deteriorates and loses its load-bearing ability. This usually happens over a number of years, though.

 

[northernbelle]

Well, they’re certainly good enough and have been good enough for the RailJet fleet in Austria, and they’re hardly reagional .

It's all subjective. I certainly find the Fainsa seats better than the Grammars which in my view make the interior claustrophobic. The lack of shape on the seat back and base is another reason.

Having travelled on Railjet trains, they too feel claustrophobic - UK width seats in European loading gauge rolling stock hardly making best use of the space available.